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  • a youtube (or any other video/audio site) challenge



    i've long read of the legendary St. John the Divine State Trumpet stop, mostly from posters here LOL, but I don't own any recordings from that cathedral nor have a ever attended a concert there </p>

    but I challenge anyone to find an en-chamade or state trumpet stop as stirring and realistic sounding as the one in this video:</p>

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUxBzAfmLiM&amp;fmt=18</p>


    </p>

    I've heard the National Cathedral one (edit: which I think is actually a trompette-en-chamade, if you want to be precise about it) both in person and on recordings &amp; television broadcast, although the effect of it is magnificent as well, it just doesn't have the incredible fullness of tone. It's just a little thinner and more acrid. Of course, my impression might change if I actually heard them both in person on the same weekend. I know its foolish of me to some degree to compare them based on a recording of either one. For example, you just can't experience the National Cathedral organ in a recording...when sitting in the choir and someone is playing the full organ with the 64 &amp; 32 bombardes, you can literally feel like the vibrations are going to dissolve your innards. It's wonderful, like cresting the hill on a roller coaster.
    </p>

    (funnily, the situation of SJD in New York is probably more "authentic" than that of the National Cathedral...I have walked all around it when it was closed; most European cathedrals probably feel hemmed in by the city like this. But the park-like close surrounding the National Cathedral, with the bishop's garden on one side and an open field on the other two, somehow makes the building seem more magnificent. I seem to recall some of the skyscrapers around SJD are taller than it is. you can see that in these 2 aerial views:</p>

    http://www.bing.com/maps/default.asp...&amp;encType=1</p>

    http://www.bing.com/maps/default.asp...&amp;encType=1</p>

    Edit 9 hours later: Good grief! I've just read the poor cathedral is having to lease a portion of their (frankly, already rather crowded) 11.5 acre plot for a 20 story apartment building. Their financials must be dour; I'm glad they at least were able to restore the organ from the fire.</p>

    http://www.stjohndivine.org/realestate_southsite.html</p>


    </p>

    )</p>

    </p>

    for example:</p>

    does this one at National Shrine:</p>

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVoLxmtgnsk</p>

    seem more nasal sounding?</p>

    </p>

    </p>

  • #2
    Re: a youtube (or any other video/audio site) challenge



    I guess I'd characterize the reedsdifferentlyconcerning how they arevoiced. The National Shrine has more body to the tone--fullness, if you will. The Cathedral in NYC appears to have a much lighter sound. Of course, the recordings of both could be affected by the equipment used, and I was using my computer speakers. I did notice that the Cathedral in NYC had more of a live reverb, but that could have been a function of placement of the recording equipment.</P>


    To compare the two, I'll makesome generalities andcompare it with the differences in speech between American English and French in France. Americans tend to speak and enunciate at the front of their mouths. Consequently, the speech patterns tend to be quicker and lighter. On the other hand, a French person from France speaking will place the tone further down in their throats. The tone has more depth to it. The same comparison could be made with these fanfare reeds.</P>


    Just my little ole opinion.</P>
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: a youtube (or any other video/audio site) challenge

      The WNC and St John chamades are in two non-similar acoustics; designed by two different men;Harrison and Whiteford; placed in opposite ends of their spaces; at different heights; one is an attempt to simulate valveless tumpets and the other is both chamade and hooded in a chamber in the triforium versus an open position in a gallery.The earlier reed is on 50'' and the latter on 27''.The scales are not the same nor is the voicing tho a single person voiced both; one in 1953 and the other in 1965.The 50'' incher was from inspiration of the Liverpool Cathedral tuba magna.These stops are dissimilar and any comparison is apples to oranges and entirely a matter of personal taste.

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      • #4
        Re: a youtube (or any other video/audio site) challenge



        Thanks sesquialtera16. I guess I was comparing apples to oranges, but these 2 stops were designed to be their respective organ's magnum stentor, so to speak.
        </p>

        The organ stop dictionary (online) says what made state trumpets different was that they developed the fundamental as well as all possible overtones. </p>

        http://www.organstops.org/s/StateTrumpet.html </p>

        I think that's what makes the SJD State Trumpet sound so unique...it's kind of a tuba/trumpet hybrid tone to my ears. It really does sound like those long silver trumpets blown for royalty.</p>

        myorgan, interesting how perceptions can be different, I find the National Shrine trumpet more characteristically nasal (emphasizes 2 2/3rd and its series I suppose, i.e., characteristic of the reed pipe type) and the SJD "fuller". Of course, kinda useless to compare based on youtube audio quality. I was hoping to get a subjective comment from someone who has heard both, or all 3, in person, although Sesqu's objective comments were appreciated.</p>

        </p>

        </p>

        </p>

        </p>

        </p>

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