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    Hybrid cars

    Hi all!



    What do you think about Hybrid Technology cars?



    Apparently the nickel used in the batteries is produced by a huge sulfur polluting nickel mine in Canada. It is said Toyota buys around 1000 tons of this stuff each year. Obviously, the environmental damage has been done already during production before the car has ever driven a mile. With average use it takes 10 years to even out the "CO2 foot print" before it gets "green" for real but by then you've already had to change the batteries or bought another car.

    As for cost efficiency (throughout the entire lifetime of the car, including designing it, building it, driving it, maintaining it and recycling it) the Hummer H3 is $2 a mile; the Toyota Prius is $3.25 a mile!

    Fascinating!


    I've driven an old and very reliable 80's car for many years now (and, hopefully, for many years to come too) and I service it myself. Replacement parts are cheap as dirt when bought new or I just scavenge some parts off of a wreck at the junk yard when needed. It costs me next to nothing really.

    Somewhere in the late 90's auto mechanics started using laptops instead of wrenches to repair cars and with the advent of electric and hybrid technology this will get more common still.

    I personally love the concept of driving cars on electricity: clean, quiet, huge torque: fast (Fisker Karma etc), but when the whole deal of carrying that electricity with you implies such radical production infrastructure and inherent additional pollution this thing isn't for me. Even country governments start to encourage the use of hybrids or electrics and reward residents with smaller tax bills. As of 2009 4% of the total car traffic (including trucks etc.) consists of hybrid cars over here versus 0.5% in all of Europe, rapidly climbing.

    #2
    Not much to be honest. A battery hybrid is -in my opinion- a complete waste of everything. It is a bad combination of technologies:
    - the battery isn't large enough to be able to do anything on its own
    - the battery lifetime is too short compared to the useful life of the car
    - the battery is too small to permit the combustion engine to run at a constant rpm that is needed to make most of its efficiency
    - because the previous you also need a larger IC engine as it will be the IC engine that runs the car most of the time
    - by taking along and an IC engine, and battery and electric motors you take along more weight than any of the solutions apart

    But I don't believe your numbers of the H3 and the prius! And trow away that 80's car...

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      #3
      Originally posted by sarqoz View Post
      What do you think about Hybrid Technology cars?
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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        #4
        like many green technologies they create more environmental damage than they save. Ethanol = worse mileage and less crops + energy wasted making it. Find an environmentally friendly battery. (even a potato battery may come on a truck and the fertilizer to grow it .............)
        1956 M3, 51 Leslie Young Chang spinet, Korg Krome and Kronos

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          #5
          Originally posted by myorgan View Post
          The hybrids they sell today price for $25k and above (several thousand above what I paid), and only get 45-50 mpg (MUCH less than I get). I've been getting 50+mpg since 1987 with my cars (87 Honda CRX-HF & 93 Civic VX). Not sure why they need to charge so much for less mileage, but . . . . We have 119,000 and 139,000 miles respectively, and they're still going strong.

          I liked the first hybrids, but automakers have figured out how to separate people from their money by guilting them into it, and fleecing them at the same time. SHAMELESS!!!

          My mile-eater has 210.000+ miles on it and still going strong.

          There seems to be something funny going on with people driving such Hybrid cars thinking they're driving around "green" but I still run into them each time I visit the gas station, pumping gas into their alleged green machines. It's kind of sad really. For all I know these cars could have been built with the recycled metal of a car like the one I still drive today!

          Yesterday I was behind a Hybrid first in line at the traffic lights. With the gentle Sunday mindset I usually have he should have whizzed away on e-power, but lo! When the lights went green this guy pulled away like mad with big puffs of steam out of his exhaust pipe.

          I think the mileage per gallon of these hybrids all boils down to the way you drive them. When these things are driven aggressively (most people who lease/ rent do) the internal combustion engine will have to help the electronics and this engine is generally very tiny - too tiny to act as a dignified power source for propelling the already heavy vehicle.

          I'm not quite sure how to qualify these cars. They suck at mileage per gallon (sure they do fine when driven in the "green zone" only, but consequently they suck at acceleration), they suck at being an electronically driven car and they suck at being a petrol driven car - that's why they're called Hybrids in the first place.

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            #6
            I've driven a Prius for the past four years. I average 48 mpg and get to drive in the HOV lane shaving about 40 minutes off of my daily commute. Passengers are surprised by the amount of room and how quiet and smooth the ride is. A friend of mine dumped his Hummer H3 for a Prius after riding in the backseat.

            You can hand pick facts to prove just about anything, but here's what I know: I live in a metropolitan area without adequate public transportation and with an air pollution problem that literally puts people in the hospital on bad days. Because it is more than twice as efficient as the typical US car, it's polluting the atmosphere far less and doing a little something toward improving the environment that I live in.

            Bottom line for me is that my hybrid is reliable and economical transportation in a time of volatile fuel prices. If driving a hybrid doesn't make sense for you, and you want to delude yourself that driving a Hummer is better for the environment, I encourage you to put your money where your mouth is and do it. You should be able to find some great deals right now.
            -Admin

            Allen 965
            Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
            Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
            Hauptwerk 4.2

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              #7
              I don't own a hybrid , I own a 2005 megane and a 1979 vandenplas 1500.
              However the stories behind prius' doing more damage to the environment than an equivalent diesel powered motor may be true but these vehicles need to be out there in real life doing there thing.
              This way the manufacturers get important feedback and can improve and modify the design.
              Of course they will overcharge for a lot of these technologies based on their green claims but the fact remains we need to move away from oil.
              The prius isn't the car that will achieve this but it has to be a step in the right direction.
              Technics SX-EX60

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                #8
                Originally posted by sarqoz View Post
                There seems to be something funny going on with people driving such Hybrid cars thinking they're driving around "green" but I still run into them each time I visit the gas station, pumping gas into their alleged green machines.
                Where do I start? I guess it's convenient to leave out the 72mpg in your quote and only include 45-50, when the lifetime mpg average of my car is over 60. That tells me a bit about your point of view.
                Originally posted by sarqoz View Post
                [snip] Yesterday I was behind a Hybrid first in line at the traffic lights. With the gentle Sunday mindset I usually have he should have whizzed away on e-power, but lo! When the lights went green this guy pulled away like mad with big puffs of steam out of his exhaust pipe.
                At least it was steam and not burned oil like your "mile-eater" with "210.000+ miles on it." Incidentally, did I mention that my CRX had 249,000 when I sold it? Or the Civic had almost 200,000 when I sold it? Also, when gas went up to around $4.00/gallon, my wife and I were saving $400/month in gas alone? She drives 80 miles, and I drive 60 miles round trip each day--that's 3031 miles/month just to get to work and back. Oh, and did I mention that with my manual transmission, the car goes 0-60 in under 8 seconds? Not a sports car, by any means, but certainly not lacking for power! Perhaps you should write about a subject you know about, perhaps something you have even experienced--like wasting gas just to carry one person's backside from place to place. I have a gas guzzler for that--at 24mpg. It's a 1996 van.

                Food for thought!
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by daverobzippy View Post
                  I don't own a hybrid , I own a 2005 megane and a 1979 vandenplas 1500.
                  However the stories behind prius' doing more damage to the environment than an equivalent diesel powered motor may be true but these vehicles need to be out there in real life doing there thing.
                  This way the manufacturers get important feedback and can improve and modify the design.
                  Of course they will overcharge for a lot of these technologies based on their green claims but the fact remains we need to move away from oil.
                  The prius isn't the car that will achieve this but it has to be a step in the right direction.
                  Amen to that.

                  Next thing to tackle should be oil free transmission sumps and oil free manufacturing processes, get rid of plastics etc.

                  You know, when I had the time and money I would scoop out my cars engine and put in an electro motor ASAP.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think most hybrids are a joke, same with "high mileage" cars. Most hybrids get around 50 or 60 and thats special? How come the lsi geo metros got around 60 mpg back in the 80's? They claim we dont have the technology to make better mileage cars, but thats obviously a load of bull. Part of the reason is all the emissions standards. All those things like catalytic converters give you worse mileage, so they have to manufacture more gasoline which takes more energy, so how is that better for the environment? I dont know who thought that up (probly the oil companies) but thats just ridiculous.
                    Hammond M3 "Hamlet"
                    Custom Leslie "Horatio?"
                    wurlitzer 210
                    korg MS2000
                    Modular synth (under construction)

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                      #11
                      A hybrid is not for me - I drive a clean diesel.

                      I average about 28MPG with lots of city driving. I could get closer to 40 if I was on the freeway more often; I also drive con vivo, which hurts economy.

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                        #12
                        Welcome back, sb32 !!!

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                          #13
                          I drive 216 miles a day on a gen 1 Insight has 210,000 no issues lifetime mileage is 62MPG. No way I could do that any other way.

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                            #14
                            kudos to anyone reducing their environmental footprint. However some hybrids are being promoted for performance.
                            Just look at the whole chain of life for any product as many use more resources then they save.
                            1956 M3, 51 Leslie Young Chang spinet, Korg Krome and Kronos

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                              #15
                              My primary means of transportation, in terms of mileage, is a Winnebago Class A motorhome that offers 7 mpg on a good day.
                              2008: Phoenix III/44

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