Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Paypal information you may not know

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Paypal information you may not know

    I'm posting this information on forums which I belong to since I know many of you buy and sell things and may be using Paypal to keep you "safe".
    I recently sold an amplifier to a registered,paypal certified buyer. I had correspondence from the buyer before the sale, he paid in full, I shipped the amp and got delivery confirmation from UPS that it was delivered to his paypal certified address. He also had tracking info as soon as it was shipped. Six weeks after the transaction , I noticed over a thousand dollars had been removed from my paypal account. When I got ahold of a human at paypal, they said the buyer told his credit card company that he didn't receive the amp, and they "charged back"the full amount,plus a twenty dollar fee.
    Paypal says this is allowed in their fine print....they told me it will take at least 75 days for the credit card company to decide if I have a legitimate case....or if I will ever see my money again.
    I have had over 300 perfect transactions with paypal and Ebay. I have 100% perfect feedback. It means nothing. Paypal is doing nothing for me other than telling me what this scammers credit card company tells them.
    Just so you all know..you might want to rethink using paypal.
    1963 C-3 147 Leslie
    1972 X-77GT 2 - 77P Leslie
    Kurzweil K 2000

  • #2
    Yeah, it's a shame but the more I read about ebay & paypal, the more it becomes obvious that they are both becoming infested with lowlife scum, and that ebay sides with the scum.

    Comment


    • #3
      To be fair, PayPal has no way of knowing where to place the blame, and as they are not issuer of the credit card used to make the purchase, they are not in a position to refund your money. I'm sure that there are just as many scammers out there who never ship a paid for item as there are those who claim not to received one.

      Although you claim to have a delivery confirmation from UPS, unless the item was signed for, it's meaningless. UPS policy is to simply leave items on the porch if no one answers the door. In my experience, the driver rings my bell and is gone before I can even get to the door.

      So while it's possible your were scammed, it's also possible the item was never received due to theft, although it's suspicious that the buyer didn't contact you prior to having the charge reversed.

      Last fall I purchased an item from a software company and it never arrived. I contacted the company and they claimed that USPS tracking number showed the item as delivered. After a fruitless attempt on their part to try to resolve the issue with the post office, they did the right thing and sent a replacement. If they hadn't, and I were to file a claim with my credit card provider, they would have been out of luck as they neither insured the package nor required a signature.
      -Admin

      Allen 965
      Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
      Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
      Hauptwerk 4.2

      Comment


      • #4
        I run another business almost exclusively from PayPal on the Internet. International and domestic orders both. The key is to use a shipper that offers signature service, it's only a couple of bucks and PayPal requires it to be on your side initially in a dispute, otherwise they side with the buyer.

        Also, "a registered,paypal certified buyer" does not mean much, just that they have an address and not much else.
        Jerry in Leslie, spinning around trying to find my way

        1990 Korg M1 - moved on to a new life
        1981 Lowrey MX-1 - giant box of bad connections
        1975 Lowrey TGS - gathering dust
        1973 Hammond T-524C w/mods - fun machine!
        1972 Hammond XTP - moved on
        1971 Gulbransen Premiere PR (1154) - awesome sound!
        1965 Hammond E-133 w/mods - her name is Emmanuele, and we are in love

        Comment


        • #5
          Since this debacle, I have dis-connected paypal from the checking account I was using for it, and from now on it will be strictly check or money order for payment, and signature proof for delivery. I foolishly fell for all the paypal hype for security and protection. You would think that after 300+ perfect transactions, they would have given me some kind of consideration..
          1963 C-3 147 Leslie
          1972 X-77GT 2 - 77P Leslie
          Kurzweil K 2000

          Comment


          • #6
            I've sold a number of things on Craigslist and a few on Ebay. I no longer use Ebay 'cause they fee you to death and side with buyers on virtually all disputes.

            I used to take Paypal payments with Craigslist for items sold to out of town buyers, I no longer do that because Paypal is only slightly better than most other forms of payment. Now I specify local only and cash only, and if the item is of significant value, we go to the bank to ensure the cash is good. For out of towners, Western Union is the only thing I'll accept as it is pretty much bullet proof, though expensive.

            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by Tim Rinkerman View Post
            Since this debacle, I have dis-connected paypal from the checking account I was using for it, and from now on it will be strictly check or money order for payment, and signature proof for delivery. I foolishly fell for all the paypal hype for security and protection. You would think that after 300+ perfect transactions, they would have given me some kind of consideration..
            Checks and money orders aren't safe these days either, and that includes all the 'cashiers checks' or 'certified checks' and if you get a response offering those, I can assure you they are really 'bogus checks'!
            Lloyd
            Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Admin View Post
              If they hadn't, and I were to file a claim with my credit card provider, they would have been out of luck as they neither insured the package nor required a signature.
              From a legal perspective: vendors accepting Pay Pal or Mastercard as payment for merchandise, are optimistically engaging in an Act of Faith. And that's a good business model based upon the fact that most citizens in the western world are ethical, moral, upgright persons of good character.

              At the outset, a credit card number posted to a vendor's website, without a valid signature, is legally, unenforceable!! No ticky, no laundry! Just like any other area of the business world: no signature, no contract!!

              Then there is the other mysterious side of the coin; and it's been a good 30 years since I have engaged in the pure legal aspect of this kind of stuff. Over the past 10 years, I have engaged in hundreds of thousands of $$$ in business transactions via internet; and while some transactions involved exchanging facsimilies of of signed contracts, the majority extend little beyond a mere internet handshake; sort of the way we used to do business 150 years ago. ;-) Of course, acutal transfer of funds might be a whole different matter.

              Then there is the eBay stuff. TimRinkerman says: "I have had over 300 perfect transactions with paypal and Ebay. I have 100% perfect feedback. It means nothing."

              To me, that sounds like an extraordinary history of success, but after experiencing a singular failure, you are going to toss the entire effort away, in favour of a totally unworkable business model: "Western Union is the only thing I'll accept as it is pretty much bullet proof, though expensive." Lot's of luck on that one!! Only a total idiot would ever wire funds via Western Union to a internet scam site.

              I order a lot of stuff via eBay, but I pick an choose items that will be most appropriate for that kind of commerce. For instance, I need new batteries for a whole bunch of wireless phones in my house. I go to WalMart, and find the battery pack I need, for $21.99 per phone; more than the cost of each phone!! Then I try eBay, and they have the same batteries for a mere $1.87 per pack, including tax, postage and shipping. Nothing to sign for when they arrive in my post box. They just have the good business sense to expect that 99% of their customers are good, decent, moral people who more than make up for the few scammers they encounter; and it's not to their advantage to penalize every potential customer because of the negative actions of a few; and idea our politicians could pick up on, if they weren't so terminally dense. B-)
              Last edited by Clarion; 03-31-2013, 05:11 PM.
              2008: Phoenix III/44

              Comment


              • #8
                PayPal is the only way I could do the amount and scope of business I do, especially Internationally. On the downright amazing side, last year I got an order from of all places, Ulan Bator, Mongolia. Late Friday night I got an order from Kentucky, this afternoon (at 4PM on Easter Sunday) I got a really nice order from Quebec. If these people did not have a convenient way to pay they would never order. Instant transaction (most of the time) and if I wanted to go to an ATM I could get the cash immediately.

                There are problems, but it has opened up an entirely new way of doing business to a lot of folks, myself included.
                Jerry in Leslie, spinning around trying to find my way

                1990 Korg M1 - moved on to a new life
                1981 Lowrey MX-1 - giant box of bad connections
                1975 Lowrey TGS - gathering dust
                1973 Hammond T-524C w/mods - fun machine!
                1972 Hammond XTP - moved on
                1971 Gulbransen Premiere PR (1154) - awesome sound!
                1965 Hammond E-133 w/mods - her name is Emmanuele, and we are in love

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, it has made it easy...TOO easy...I fell into it.
                  1963 C-3 147 Leslie
                  1972 X-77GT 2 - 77P Leslie
                  Kurzweil K 2000

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Clarion View Post
                    n extraordinary history of success, but after experiencing a singular failure, you are going to toss the entire effort away, in favour of a totally unworkable business model: "Western Union is the only thing I'll accept as it is pretty much bullet proof, though expensive." Lot's of luck on that one!! Only a total idiot would ever wire funds via Western Union to a internet scam site.
                    I was the one that talked about Western Union money. And I stand behind that as I'm not in the business of selling stuff, and when I do with Craigslist I'm not wanting a buyer from out of my local area or one that isn't going to show up at my door with cash in hand. If someone wants me to sell then its either Western Union or they can go buy somewhere else. Every ad I've done on Craigslist in the last few years has been very specific that it is a local sale, local pickup and cash only.
                    Lloyd
                    Lowrey SU-630 Palladium, Lowrey GX-1, Hammond Aurora

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I love PayPal.

                      I'm a frequent eBay purchaser from many countries and I use PayPal as my first choice payment method as I'm reluctant to give my credit card details after having one such card scammed and canceled by my bank.

                      Also, PayPal readily takes care of foreign currency conversion.

                      In some 10 years of using eBay I've only ever had two non-deliveries coupled with non-replies to my attempts to get answers from the sellers, and both times PayPal reversed the transaction in my favor but only after the sellers also did not reply to eBay's communications.

                      While I was waiting the statutory period for eBay to get a reply or otherwise from the seller I asked my credit card issuer if they could reverse the transaction. They said given that it was via PayPal their policy was to first wait to see what PayPal does and then review the situation if I was not satisfied.

                      Just about everything that's shipped to me from eBay (usually via USPS) requires my signature.

                      One seller shipped by UPS courier and when I wasn't home the package was returned to their depot from where I collected it after hours after showing my ID and signing for the item.

                      If I were an eBay seller I would ALWAYS ship as "signature required". Granted a fraudster could sign for the item but at least I would have proof that I actually shipped the item.

                      Some additional notes re couriers: A friend told me about a delivery from Canada where a local post office courier driver misread the address (25/25 instead of 52/25) and delivered the item to the wrong door. The occupant at the wrong address blithely signed for the item and away drove the courier. It wasn't until my friend demanded proof of delivery and saw the signature that was nothing like his own, and a post office investigation was launched that he was able to claim a mis-delivery and get compensation.

                      On a variation the above, there have been reported cases where lazy courier drivers, finding the recipient not home, simply forge/scribble the "signature" and leave the item on the doorstep, from where it can be easily stolen. Another case of item documented as "delivered" but not actually received.
                      Last edited by gtc; 04-01-2013, 05:26 AM.
                      -------

                      Hammond M-102 #21000.
                      Leslie 147 #F7453.
                      Hammond S-6 #72421

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tim,

                        Isn't it interesting that now eBay and PayPal want you to link the accounts together? Only a fool would do that! One account compromised thereby compromises the security of all banking accounts you have linked to PayPal? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!!

                        Beware of big brother--He's already here!

                        Michael
                        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                        • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The big brother wagons have already come into full circle. I still have to use a separate password on my paypal account then what I use on my ebay account.
                          Allen 5300-DK, Hammond A-105, Conn Custom 905-DK

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X