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  • Tutti
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    "Well.. coming from an English "organist..."

    meh. "

    Who are you referring to? Since you replied to me, I can only assume that's who you meant. I'm not English. You must have me confused with someone else. Although the cynicism and deprication which with you write are found in your posts to everyone. . .

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  • buzzyreed
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    Well.. coming from an English "organist..."

    meh.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tutti
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    "After years of studying keyboard ergonimics I realize that it is about most effecient use of body positioning. Forcing your knees together is an unantural.. "

    Yes, the knees together thing seems unnatural. And come to think of it, I don't even know if it's in the Gleason book or not. You would know more about that than I.

    And I only change registrations in the middle of Bach fugues when I pull the 16' manual stop on and off.

    As for the rest of your dreck the know-it-all attitude is certainly not endearing. In person it may come across as funny. I know several people who have that personality and are very humorous amount it. They all lisp of course, which doesn't come across on the internet and is probably what contributes a lot to the humor.

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  • Fettler
    replied
    Re: Hello! (and a question)

    Once again Buzzy you are talking utter bollocks my friend. Nearly every organist I know started with the Eight Short Preludes and Fugues. We all know that they weren't written by Bach but they were still very useful pieces to learn. I suppose you would rather baffle pupils with pieces that have hundreds of semiquavers in them and which take months to learn, and perhaps lose the students interest in the process?. My organ teacher (a fantastic player and a ARCO and a Graduate of the Royal Northern College of Music) started me on the Short Eight and I certainly don't think my playing suffered for it. The pieces helped me with my co-ordination and articulation. Of course we moved onto other stuff later, but IMO the Eight were a good starting point. To say they aren't worth the paper they are written on is nonsense.

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  • Fettler
    replied
    Re: Hello! (and a question)

    Once again Buzzy you are talking utter bollocks my friend. Nearly every organist I know started with the Eight Short Preludes and Fugues. We all know that they weren't written by Bach but they were still very useful pieces to learn. I suppose you would rather baffle pupils with pieces that have hundreds of semiquavers in them and which take months to learn, and perhaps lose the students interest in the process?. My organ teacher (a fantastic player and a ARCO and a Graduate of the Royal Northern College of Music) started me on the Short Eight and I certainly don't think my playing suffered for it. The pieces helped me with my co-ordination and articulation. Of course we moved onto other stuff later, but IMO the Eight were a good starting point. To say they aren't worth the paper they are written on is nonsense.

    Leave a comment:


  • Havoc
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    > Why is the implication that body position aids in technique so ridiculous?

    It isn't. But neither is forcing your body into a position you don't feel comfortable in going to aid your technique. One of the most important rules is being relaxed with no unnecessary strain.

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  • buzzyreed
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    After years of studying keyboard ergonimics I realize that it is about most effecient use of body positioning. Forcing your knees together is an unantural..

    Oh hell.. who cares, you're still gonna argue anyway. If you've wasted as much time 'learning' an inefficent method, you'll be hard pressed NOT to defend it until death. We had a few of those at our school too, until they died.

    They were also the ones that liked to change registrations in the middle of fugues...


    **sigh**

    they were also the ones that played all the Italian Aria lit as if it were written in the 19th century.

    They were also the ones who never understood a balanced onset. They were also the ones who never played ona werkprizip organ in their whole lives...

    **sigh**


    Leave a comment:


  • Tutti
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    "saying that you need to have your knees together to 'maintain interval accuracy.." or whatever is like saying you have to keep your wrists together to maintain interval accuracy in the manuals. Simply ridiculous. "

    Why is the implication that body position aids in technique so ridiculous? Every instrument (or sport for that matter) that I know requires proper body position.

    Sounds like you just like to keep your legs spread to me.

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  • Havoc
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    If you are in discomfort your playing is suffering under it. Find a position that is comfortable for you, not for the writer of whatever book. It has to be compatible with playing the organ of course, but don't force yourself one way or another because of a book.

    Leave a comment:


  • NYCFarmboy
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    my observation on the knees together thing:

    I think it is something ONLY shouted as the gospel by those who were forced to learn to play that way, that is my experience anyhow, the organists I know who play that way get REALLY annoyed if you don't do it that way.

    Virgil Fox deplored knees together as it forced unnatural stress and caused you to tire as it entails muscle strain to keep your knees together which impedes your body energy over time.

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  • andyg
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    Aside from the obvious thoughts that Buzzy mentioned, I've never worried about keeping knees together. Heels together when appropriate, yes, but not knees. No-one ever told me about Gleason when I was learning and I don't think I missed anything!

    Andy G

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  • buzzyreed
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    saying that you need to have your knees together to 'maintain interval accuracy.." or whatever is like saying you have to keep your wrists together to maintain interval accuracy in the manuals. Simply ridiculous.


    Seond of all, I dont' know about you and I'm trying to keep this from sounding vulgar, but how can you keep your knees together without, um hurting? Maybe the female organists don't have this problem, but geeese louise, that is uncomfortable. Its like wearing a sports bra for boxer shorts.

    I dont' understand why you need a gleasoneque method to judge intervals, you dont' need that for your hands and they do much more complicated things than your feet. Heel toe, heel toe...


    Leave a comment:


  • LifeWithLoopy
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    knees together is somewhat uncomfortable for me

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  • Tutti
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    I was taught from the Gleason book. Knees and heels together make it much easier to play the most common interviews--seconds and thirds. When I find myself getting sloppy I remind myself to keep my heels together and that fixes it. I don't think about knees though.

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  • organplayr
    replied
    Re: Knees together?!

    Some of these posts mention keeping one's knees together. After playing the organ as an amateur for more than 50 years, my current teacher recently introduced me to the "Gleason" method and suggested I try it. Talk about trying to teach the old dog!! I've tried a few of the exercises-knees together, feet together-stretching the Achille's tendons like mad-going up and down the pedalboard. It just doesn't seem worth the effort and doesn't seem "natural" or comfortable to say the least.

    Then, I recently re-read "The Dish" (lots of new rediscoveries) and found a writer (pp 75-78) describe Virgil's admonition to "play as you walk" (whatever that means) and keep your knees above the ankles (not knees together)-the opposite of the Gleason method-and don't stretch the Achille's tendon!

    I'm curious if anyone here espouses the Gleason method and, if so, why. Also, what do you think Virgil meant by "play as you walk". I assume that means put your foot where it naturally wants to go.

    I've ordered that writer's new book "The Innermost Secrets-the method behind the madness" about Virgil's technique and it probably will shed some light on this. At least it should be interesting reading.

    Leave a comment:

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