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  • Copyright issues

    A few months ago I posted a video of myself playing Bach's "Sleepers Awake" on You-tube, strictly for my family. I restricted it to invited folks only. My playing is nowhere near good enough to go public yet. :embarrassed:

    The sheet music was downloaded from one of the online free scores sites and was clearly marked public domain. Imagine my surprise when I got a notification from You-tube that this work is copyrighted which could create problems. Rather than invite issues I removed the video. A lawyer in our church expressed surprise that such a work would be copyright especially when the music was identified as copyright free.

    Has anyone else experienced this when posting a video on YT? Are YT simply covering themselves in case any music is copyrighted? It seems to be impossible to get any kind of definitive answer from YT.
    Allen ADC 1000
    Large Beagle

  • #2
    Hard to see how a copyright claim could be made under those circumstances.

    As I understand it, YT only acts if somebody lodges a copyright infringement notification. Perhaps somebody is claiming copyright to the score, even though it was marked public domain?

    As I guess you know, there's a process whereby you can dispute the ruling. It would be interesting to know exactly what is being claimed, and by whom, in your case:

    http://www.youtube.com/yt/copyright/
    -------

    Hammond M-102 #21000.
    Leslie 147 #F7453.
    Hammond S-6 #72421

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    • #3
      Only three ways of this happening on YouTube; 1 one of your friends or family members lodged a complaint or 2, some one you invited sent the link to someone else who then (out of spite) lodged the CR complaint. Or 3. it isn't "private"
      Allen 5300-DK, Hammond A-105, Conn Custom 905-DK

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      • #4
        Please protest this. It is important to raise the cost of false claims to YouTube, as that is the only way they will stop this abusive behaviour.

        Don't bother telling them about the source of the score, I suspect it's not even relevant, unless you're posting a picture of it. Tell them "It's Bach, you ---- -----, it's been in the public domain for about 400 years".

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        • #5
          Also there are some automated "detectors" running. If your piece is sufficiently close to a copyrighted performance then they could flag it as an infringment. In that case it is even more important to protest.

          It isn't about the sheet music used, it is about the performance. You can play Bach as much as you want and post video and recordings of you doing it as much as you like. But you cannot post a video of a recording of someone else playing that piece of music. Bach is public domain. Even if you play it from a free score the video of your performance is copyrighted (to you or someone you assigned the rights to). So if it looks/sounds close enough to another performance some automated tool can flag it.

          You have to tell them you are the performer and owner of the copyright of that particular video.

          Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advise.

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          • #6
            Perhaps someone misunderstood it to be Procol Harum's 'Whiter Shade of Pale'?

            I'm joking, but not very much. I would also be quite unhappy if that happened, but don't know if I would take the trouble to pursue it against YT.
            Unwanted Bitcoin? Dispose of them safely here:14hjbheQVki8eG75otRK4d2MQBarCCWQfJ

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            • #7
              I think that the YT service has keywords that it searches (that are probably paid for by individual artists, most likely pop artists or something like that) and if you post something that has one or more of those keywords in it, it flags your post as a potential copyright issue. For example, I recorded Bach's first prelude from the Well-Tempered Clavier (in C Major), and I immediately received a notice that it "matched third party content." When I clicked on the link, it gave me the company or whatever that possessed the supposed third party content. I Googled it, and found that it was an agency that represents hip-hop and rap artists. Apparently, somebody sampled it or something, and then recorded an album using it. The agency likely puts out information to all of the video hosting and music sharing websites on the internet and says, "hey, we've got a song that uses such and such and the copyright belongs to us." Then, the hosting website puts the information into a database that automatically scans every upload for all the copyrighted information they are aware of, and notifies the appropriate users. I've had this done twice and nothing came of it. The reason I think it's automated is that it happened both times immediately after I posted the video (wasn't up for 30 secs, before I received the notice). I think that it is YT covering themselves, by notifying you that what you have posted could be copyright material and that you could have a claim made against you. In all likelihood, if you performed it yourself, and the work was public domain, you're probably ok. I'd have to refresh myself on the workings of mechanical copyright, but I think you own the performance you give, whether you own the rights to the music or not: the recording of that performance belongs to you, especially if you use your own device. I also believe that purchasing a copy of the music grants you the right to perform it ad libitum (not to copy it though!).

              THE SHORT VERSION: Havoc is absolutely correct.
              Last edited by ClergetMusic; 04-04-2013, 04:44 PM.
              Fishers, IN

              At School Church: Wicks III/40
              At Church Where I Am Director: Hammond BV with Leslie 122
              Summer Practice Organ: Rodgers III/47

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              • #8
                Originally posted by picothinker View Post
                Perhaps someone misunderstood it to be Procol Harum's 'Whiter Shade of Pale'?

                I'm joking, but not very much. I would also be quite unhappy if that happened, but don't know if I would take the trouble to pursue it against YT.
                I guess that's possible, too.
                -------

                Hammond M-102 #21000.
                Leslie 147 #F7453.
                Hammond S-6 #72421

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hamman View Post
                  Only three ways of this happening on YouTube; 1 one of your friends or family members lodged a complaint or 2, some one you invited sent the link to someone else who then (out of spite) lodged the CR complaint. Or 3. it isn't "private"
                  Thanks for all the responses.

                  Friends or family could not have lodged a complaint. It had only been up there an hour or two and I had not had time to send out any links.

                  Made VERY sure it was private.

                  The way I play it it might have had some vague resemblance to "Whiter Shade of Pale." :->

                  Bit late to protest it now as it was a month or two ago. I might re-record it and re-post after all I've practiced a bit more since then.

                  Suspect Clergetmusic may well have hit the nail on the head. Automated detectors running all the time turning up false positives.

                  It puzzled me because I see many organists playing a variety of works, maybe some of the scores they play are copyrighted I don't know. Are we supposed to pay royalties to any composer or publisher if we play their music, which we have purchased? Seems to be a legal minefield. I was just taken aback because I would never knowingly violate someone else's copyrighted work.

                  I'll challenge it if it happens again.
                  Allen ADC 1000
                  Large Beagle

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                  • #10
                    Yep, put it up again and declare yourself to be the owner of all rights. Let them go Bach up another tree.
                    -------

                    Hammond M-102 #21000.
                    Leslie 147 #F7453.
                    Hammond S-6 #72421

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Have you considered another possibility? One thing I have not heard is that perhaps the e-mail notification was Spam? DO NOT click on any of the links in the notification, but if you hold your mouse over them, the link should show up either in a bubble or in your Status Bar at the bottom of your browser. If the link(s) show(s) any other domain than YouTube, you've been spammed.

                      I often get these things from PayPal (but not on the account I use PayPal), eBay, CraigsList, etc. It's just people phishing for information, and if you reply or click in the e-mail, you've compromised your computer and security.

                      I hope this helps.

                      Michael

                      P.S. Your download, performance, and posting are in no way a copyright violation. If someone claims to have the copyright, they're probably lying unless it's an arrangement that is so much different (significant revision) than the original it then becomes their intellectual property.
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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                      • #12
                        It puzzled me because I see many organists playing a variety of works, maybe some of the scores they play are copyrighted I don't know. Are we supposed to pay royalties to any composer or publisher if we play their music, which we have purchased? Seems to be a legal minefield.
                        Again with the same disclaimer as previous post:

                        When you purchase a copy of sheet music you can play it as much as you like. But the edition (paper or electronic) itself is copyrighted and that right is held by the publisher. So while you can play it you may not make any copies of the sheet music. Except those granted to you by law (like a photocopy to make notes on for study, or in education related use) or the coyrightholder (like in creative common licenced editions).

                        That copyright has nothing to do with the content. If I would edit tomorrow a new edition of Bach then that edition would be copyrighted from now until xx years after my death. It is a protection of the work I did to gather and make fit for use the scores. I as the publisher would be granted the copyright. But I could also opt to use another license than the traditional restrictive ones. It could be CC, or even public domain. It would in that case still be copyrighted but the licence to use it is different.

                        It does get murky when you play a public performance of a work. Most performers prefer to play from a legally obtained copy of the sheet music to avoid issues. But if you do a public performance of a work that is still copyrighted you will have to pay royalties. That isn't the copyright of the sheet music edition but the copyright of the composer that plays. There isn't any for Bach but for contemporary composers this applies.

                        I'm not sure how it relates to the publishers of the score. As you say it is a legal minefield. Normally the organisers of a concert would fill in the necessecary paperwork with the right holders association and they should sort out who and how much to pay.

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                        • #13
                          Music of any kind (with one exception) is exempt from any performance right payment requirements when used in an actual religous service.

                          Other types of public performances require a performance payment, and these are usually handled by a music performance rights organization such as BMI or ASCAP.

                          Playing at home for friends and family does not require a performance rights license/payment.

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                          • #14
                            There is no requirement to payment to pay BMI or ASCAP to play Bach pieces.

                            Now, transcriptions or re-arrangements of those same pieces, that is where the waters muddy.

                            Wes

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