Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



    Heres something that has been puzzling me for some time...</p>

    Nearly all new digital organs and a lot of older analogue organs come with a "crescendo" expression pedal - I don't know about pipe instruments since I don't get to play many of them.
    </p>

    What exactly is the "crescendo" pedal for? For instance if you want to build up or remove stops you can do this by hand, if there are too many to change at once you can use a piston (or a sequence of pistons) and if you want to adjust "the volume" you can do this by appropriate registering and using the divisional expression pedals. So isn't the "crescendo" pedal a redundant feature?</p>

    I've never come across a piece of music that expressly asks for the use of it, and I've never been directed by any of my teachers to use it. In fact on most electronic organs I have used, this expression pedal is often the stiffist and squeakiest since it is rarely touched.</p>

    The only good use I can think of it has is for someone who doesn't know how to register an organ, so they press the pedal and the organ will "self register" ie. press it right in along with the other expression pedals to play something loud, and pull it nearly all the way out to play quietly.</p>

    Am I missing out on something really important here and asking a stupid question? Are there any other usefull applications the "crescendo" expression pedal has except for people who can't register an organ.
    </p>

    Interested to hear opinions on this...
    </p>
    1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
    Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

    #2
    Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???

    The pedal can feather in the sound and out without having touse many pistonsand then careful use of the expression pedal as well... just throttles the sounds smoothly...

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



      Hi,</p>

      The reasons for having a Crescendo pedal I think are highly over-rated. Other than say for an orchestral type buildup, there is no literature written specifically using crescendo.</p>

      With the advent of multi-level memories, oodles of pistons, and various playing aids, the Crescendo is pretty much redundant. </p>

      On top of that, in many places where it is available on the instrument it is over used and abused. It becomes a crutch to those who never learned to register, for those who can't be bothered to practice much, and even promotes laziness.</p>

      But hey........there are many left footed Suzies out there with the left foot bouncing on the bottom octave of the pedals, and the right foot balancing the body resting on the crescendo pedal. </p>

      AV</p>

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



        There is indeed organ literature that requires the crescendo pedal. </P>


        If you look at orchestrally-inspired American organ music from the middle of the 20th century, you will find works by such composers as Leo Sowerby and Richard Purvis.</P>


        Many large organ works of the German Romantic period require a Rollschweller. A crescendo pedal is a bit more crude, but has the same effect.</P>


        I agree with fredy2 that you can easily "feather" levels of sound in/out, with a crescendo pedal.</P>


        Making a crescendo/decrescendo only with the expression pedals is not the same as adding/subtracting registers.There is quite a bitof literature that calls for huge buildups (or down) of sound, and often times thehands are too busy to press pistons. Many modern crescendo pedals have 60 stages for a seamless buildup - would you be willing to press 60 pistons while still trying to play the notes? []</P>


        I know there are some very fine orchestral players who only use pistons, and they can do this with amazing facility. However, the crescendo pedal is also there to be used. A colleague of mine refers to the crescendo pedal as an extra piston. []</P>


        I have known a number of British organists who dislike the crescendo pedal, but I get the impression that they are not exposed to many instruments with crescendo pedals. There is that famousstory of Edwin Lemare, who nailed the crescendo pedal closedon one of his instruments.</P>


        Last thought - - with today's programmable crescendo pedals, you canregister every stage; this dispels the argument thatit is "inartistic" to use a pre-programmed sequence.</P>

        Comment


          #5
          ~1936 Hammond AV - Leslie 122 & PR40~ ~1954 Wurlitzer ElectroStatic 4602 - Leslie 125~

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???

            [quote user="Orgrinder010"]


            A lot of the times I will use it on organs that I am not familiar with playing. Especially if the pistons are set for other styles of playing and I don't want to mess them up. For me, it is an easy way to quickly hear what the organ has to offer and then after that I usually go about manually pulling stops.</P>


            On more familiar organs, I rarely touch it.</P>
            <P mce_keep="true"></P>


            [/quote]</P>


            Yes indeed. We have a visiting organist who helps us with one Mass most Sundays and this is exactly what he does. Since our Peterson MSP-1000 system also provides for 4 different crescendos, I set one up especially for this organist just the way he wanted it. Works just fine for what he needs to do.</P>


            []</P>

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



              I forgot one more handy use of the crescendo pedal:</P>


              One organ I play is rather large, with drawknobs disposed in terraces. When I'm in a hurry to register a piece, I will set the "blind check" function on.Then I use the crescendo pedal to achieve an appropriatelevel (fonds 8, fonds 8+4, etc.). Once I see the knobs as I need them, I turn off "blind check", adjust the registration if needed, and then set my piston. It is a very useful tool!</P>

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???

                [quote user="arie v"]

                But hey........there are many left footed Suzies out there with the left foot bouncing on the bottom octave of the pedals, and the right foot balancing the body resting on the crescendo pedal. </p>

                [/quote]</p>

                Sounds like John's cousin Yvonna. Personally I don't use the crescendo pedal. I actually know of one organ which is equipped with such a pedal which originally worked, but when they had the organ restored/enlarged, the Cresc. Pedal was never rewired. so although there is a crescendo pedal, it doesn't do anything.
                </p>

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



                  Looks like most of us wouldn't miss the crescendo pedal if it were omitted. </p>

                  Perhaps organ manufacturers reading this thread will "thrift out" this feature in the near future to save money.
                  </p>

                  </p>
                  1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
                  Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???

                    [quote user="soubasse32"]

                    There is indeed organ literature that requires the crescendo pedal. </p>


                    If you look at orchestrally-inspired American organ music from the middle of the 20th century, you will find works by such composers as Leo Sowerby and Richard Purvis.</p>


                    Many large organ works of the German Romantic period require a Rollschweller. A crescendo pedal is a bit more crude, but has the same effect.</p>


                    I agree with fredy2 that you can easily "feather" levels of sound in/out, with a crescendo pedal.</p>


                    Making a crescendo/decrescendo only with the expression pedals is not the same as adding/subtracting registers.There is quite a bitof literature that calls for huge buildups (or down) of sound, and often times thehands are too busy to press pistons. Many modern crescendo pedals have 60 stages for a seamless buildup - would you be willing to press 60 pistons while still trying to play the notes? []</p>

                    [/quote]</p>

                    </p>

                    Soubasse,</p>

                    These composers you mention, do they actually call for the use of a crescendo in their music scores? I certainly have never seen it. I would assume that these organ pieces are not to be played on organs without a crescendo pedal.
                    </p>

                    Also, I have never come across a crescendo with 60 stages. This would assume a very large organ indeed. Even so, I am not sure my leg and ankle can subtly move through 60 stages, when the rotation on the pedal is less than 45 degrees.</p>

                    AV</p>

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???

                      [quote user="nullogik"]


                      Heres something that has been puzzling me for some time...</P>


                      Nearly all new digital organs and a lot of older analogue organs come with a "crescendo" expression pedal - I don't know about pipe instruments since I don't get to play many of them.
                      </P>


                      What exactly is the "crescendo" pedal for? </P>


                      [/quote]</P>


                      As has been said by another, if you are playing a complex piece and both hands are very busy, the crescendo pedal comes in handy.</P>


                      As far as being a substitute for knowing how to register, I have seen newer organs (digital) with programmable crescendo, meaning the organist can select what stops come in and out, and when they do so. So that refutes the idea that they are meant as a substitute for good registration.</P>


                      Bill</P>

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



                        The crescendo system in the Peterson MSP-1000 has 60 stages. And yes, it is really not practical to think that you are going to advance the stages one number at a time. It also requires careful programming to add stops very gradually so that you do not run out at stage 45 rather than 60. However, one trick is to make two or three sequential stages (i.e., 30, 31,32) the exact same registration. Moreover, Peterson gives you the option of changing the program to 30 stages while still maintaining full pedal travel, since it is done in the computer.</P>


                        I hope that I explained that clearly and in a helpful manner.</P>

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



                          I have come across a piece which requires the use of a crescendo pedal. The Carillon by Herbert Murrill says on the very final bar to suddenly turn the crescendo pedal right down, then pull it right up for the final beat. It also says to try using the swell pedal if there is no crescendo.</P>


                          Doesn't the organ in Atlantic City have a crescendo pedal as well?</P>

                          Comment


                            #14

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Crescendo Expression Pedal - what for???



                              Acrescendo pedal exists on nearly every American organ built in the last 100 years-I'm surprised that so many organists seem to have no use for it without really askinghow orwhyitbecame suchstandard equipment (in North America, at least).</P>


                              [quote user="arie v"]Soubasse, </P>


                              These composers you mention, do they actually call for the use of a crescendo in their music scores? I certainly have never seen it. I would assume that these organ pieces are not to be played on organs without a crescendo pedal.[/quote]</P>


                              I'm so glad you asked. [] Some examples: </P>
                              <UL>
                              <LI>Richard Purvis: Divinium Mysterium - gradually open crescendo Pedal</LI>
                              <LI>Leo Sowerby: Symphony (one of the greatest 20th century organ works) - increase gradually with crescendo pedal</LI>
                              <LI>Sowerby: Comes Autumn Time - Full Organ - reduce by closing crescendo pedal</LI>
                              <LI>Sowerby:Requiescat in Pace- graduallyincrease withCrescendo Ped.</LI>
                              <LI>Sowerbyageant (an encore piece played by virtuosi around the world) - Crescendo pedal open (at start); close crescendo pedal</LI>[/list]


                              These pieces can be played without the crescendo pedal, but it would be quite awkward indeed.</P>


                              As MarkS mentioned, the works of Reger demand some sort of device similar to a Rollschweller. The crescendo pedal is a pretty good substitute.</P>


                              Arie, I've programmed a 60-stage crescendo - it is very time consuming but the results can be amazing!</P>


                              I just thought of another great use for the crescendo pedal - I use it to bring on/take off all of the unison couplers. Often times there is an indication to couple all manuals to pedal. Unless you have an organ with couplers specifically for pistons (rather rare), you would have to either moveall thecouplers simultaneously (awkward), or use up a general piston (which is a waste). The crescendo pedal (if programmed to do so) will make this very easy.</P>

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X