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  • #16
    Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops

    [quote user="sesquialtera16"]Ihave yet to see or hear of any critic as good as the person they are critiquing let alone better than. So either put up or shut up![/quote]


    Are youaddressing me?</P>


    I certainly hope not. There has been such rudeness on this Forum lately. [^o)]</P>


    What I wrote is not a critique, it is a list of corrections to factual errors - something that was politely requested by others here. I have no desire and no need to compare myself to Mr. Irwin.</P>


    I'm not sure why anyone should be told to "put up or shut up" - to do so only perpetuates ignorance.</P>

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    • #17
      Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops



      I took the time to look up all the items in SB32's discussion in the on-line Encyclopedia of Organ Stops and found it to be a quite interesting exercise.</P>


      David</P>

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      • #18
        Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops



        [quote user="davidecasteel"]I took the time to look up all the items in SB32's discussion in the on-line Encyclopedia of Organ Stops and found it to be a quite interesting exercise.[/quote]</P>


        Checking up on me, eh? [:D]</P>


        Now that you've intrigued me, I just did the same; Isee they don't mention thata French Bourdon is most likely a metal chimney flute. Someone should bring that to their attention. [;)]</P>

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        • #19
          Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops



          Are youaddressing me?</P>


          I certainly hope not. There has been such rudeness on this Forum lately---Soubasse32</P>


          No Dr L.M.</P>


          Not you per se. I was making a general statement that people who are by vocation critics such as those of Max Regers day and like some full-time ones that do exist even now usually talk the talk but dont walk the walk.I did not intend to stifle you in any way. My beef is with full-time critics of any genre. Sorry for the confusion.You are a pro at everything you do and you are condescending by merely being in this forum whereas none of your contemporaries are anywhere to be found here.</P>


          Yes the book contains info that is now known to be inaccurate. The author evidently had minimal awareness or interest in anything not American.Looking at the work in that light it filled a need in its day. Now it would be impossible to make a succinct book less than 1000 pages that would cover even all the known specimens of each organ voice. Thus the net provides quick and easy access for the neophyte as well as the seasoned conniseur of pipe organ stop nomenclature.</P>

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          • #20
            romantic

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            • #21
              [/quote]</P>


              Yes, I was thinking mainly of C-C organs, where a stoppered wood pipe of 16' pitch in the manuals is usually referred to as a Bourdon, whereas in the pedal it is usually referred to as a Soubasse. [H] If C-C had a stoppered flute in the manuals it might have been called a Cor de nuit. I believe his manual 8' Bourdons typically had chimneys however. Here is an interesting discussion about this: http://web16713.vs.netbenefit.co.uk/...x.php?t62.html</P>


              I agree with you about Audsley. A good source mainly, but his verbosity can be rather tedious.</P>

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              • #22
                Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops

                [quote user="soubasse32"][quote user="sesquialtera16"]Ihave yet to see or hear of any critic as good as the person they are critiquing let alone better than. So either put up or shut up![/quote]


                Are youaddressing me?</P>


                I certainly hope not. There has been such rudeness on this Forum lately. [^o)]</P>


                What I wrote is not a critique, it is a list of corrections to factual errors - something that was politely requested by others here. I have no desire and no need to compare myself to Mr. Irwin.</P>


                I'm not sure why anyone should be told to "put up or shut up" - to do so only perpetuates ignorance.</P>


                [/quote]</P>


                I agree. I have seen this same quote before on another thread. First of all, I ASKED for educated, informed comments. I am satisfied with Soubasse32's contributions to thisthread. He was the exact person I hoped would respond. I hope Soubasse32 writes the definitive book someday.</P>

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                • #23
                  Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops

                  [quote user="soubasse32"]


                  [quote user="davidecasteel"]I took the time to look up all the items in SB32's discussion in the on-line Encyclopedia of Organ Stops and found it to be a quite interesting exercise.[/quote]</P>


                  Checking up on me, eh? [:D]</P>


                  [/quote]</P>


                  What makes you think that? I might just as well have been checking up on the Encyclopedia, mightn't I?[8-|] In any case--as I said, I found the exercise interesting. What I found was that much there totally agreed with SB32's comments, but the explanations did show that some of those objections probably originated in different practices in different countries (which Irwin sidestepped, probably for brevity) and a few were probably just the result of less experience. I think that the Irwin book did fill a need for me when I first obtained it; the Audsley book later expanded my horizons; and this forum is continuing the process.</P>


                  I rather expected SB32 to respond because he had originally brought up the errors in the Irwin book. I continue to be impressed with SB32's wide experience and knowledge, which is undeniable. He has taught me a lot in my short time here. (Thanks)</P>


                  David</P>

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                  • #24
                    Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops



                    Thank you, thank you. [Z]</P>


                    [quote user="davidecasteel"]I rather expected SB32 to respond because he had originally brought up the errors in the Irwin book.[/quote]</P>


                    Actually, Radagast said</P>


                    [quote user="radagast"]I am curious about how other members of this forum feel about this book by Stevens Irwin.On another forum, there were a lot of criticisms about it being inaccurate.[/quote]</P>


                    So I didn't actually bring up the errors - it sounds like a whole bunch of other folks did, somewhere else. [:D] I just jumped on the bandwagon.</P>


                    For those of you that seem to like the book, more power to you. It is mostly accurate, but formy money I prefer a more updated/broader/accurate source of info.</P>


                    Or do as I do - buyeverybook you can get your hands on, and cross-reference. [8-|]</P>

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops

                      Yes, I was thinking mainly of C-C organs, where a stoppered wood pipe of 16' pitch in the manuals is usually referred to as a Bourdon, whereas in the pedal it is usually referred to as a Soubasse.
                      Soubasse is often used for a stopped flute that is an octave lower than the (open) principal of that devision. So if your lowest principal is 16' then the soubasse will be a 32'.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops

                        [quote user="soubasse32"]


                        Actually, Radagast said</P>


                        [quote user="radagast"]I am curious about how other members of this forum feel about this book by Stevens Irwin.On another forum, there were a lot of criticisms about it being inaccurate.[/quote]</P>


                        So I didn't actually bring up the errors - it sounds like a whole bunch of other folks did, somewhere else. [:D] I just jumped on the bandwagon.</P>


                        [/quote]</P>


                        Exactly. I had seen another discussion about this elsewhere and decided that I would like to hear from members here.There are people on this forum whose opinions on this matter, I would consider conclusive. So I wished for either confirmation or intelligent contradiction.The result was confirmation.</P>

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                        • #27
                          Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops



                          [quote user="Havoc"]
                          Yes, I was thinking mainly of C-C organs, where a stoppered wood pipe of 16' pitch in the manuals is usually referred to as a Bourdon, whereas in the pedal it is usually referred to as a Soubasse.
                          Soubasse is often used for a stopped flute that is an octave lower than the (open) principal of that devision. So if your lowest principal is 16' then the soubasse will be a 32'.[/quote]</P>


                          Actually, the term Soubasse seems to be preferred in Francewhether there is an 8' Principal or not. (Yes, it is ideal to have an open 8' stop when you have a stoppered 16').</P>


                          Perusing the following list: http://orgue.free.fr/paris.htmlI see that the 16' Soubasseseems to be the standard onorgans large and small. It is the same in the US with the 16' Bourdon.</P>

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                          • #28

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                            • #29
                              Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops

                              Hmm..I picked up a 12 note pedal 16' stopped offset..they are labeled "Soubbass".....I just thought they were big pedal bourdons but after reading above am curious now.....what notes do these normally work with for a complete pedal stop? i.e. I was thinking they worked with a Tibia 8' rank, but now after reading the above posts would these work better with a diapason 8' or just a standard gedeckt 8' for the notes from 13 thru 32?

                              pic of the pipes:

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                              • #30
                                Re: Dictionary of Pipe Organ Stops



                                [quote user="NYCFarmboy"]Hmm..I picked up a 12 note pedal 16' stopped offset..they are labeled "Soubbass".....I just thought they were big pedal bourdons but after reading above am curious now.....what notes do these normally work with for a complete pedal stop? i.e. I was thinking they worked with a Tibia 8' rank, but now after reading the above posts would these work better with a diapason 8' or just a standard gedeckt 8'?[/quote]

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