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Notre Dame in Paris on Fire

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  • #16
    Diane Bish tribute to the Notre Dame organ
    -Admin

    Allen 965
    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
    Hauptwerk 4.2

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    • #17
      Another couple of articles from Slipped Disc, including an open letter from Oliver Latry...

      https://slippedisc.com/2019/04/notre...-raising-funds

      https://slippedisc.com/2019/04/just-...-dame-organist

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      • #18
        I'm sure the roof and spire will be able to be fully restored but ND like all the other fine churches of Europe contain many intricately carved panels which would be irreplaceable.
        I have been fortunate to have visited ND once as a young man and again in 2017
        The stained glass windows depicting biblical scenes are actually painted glass and were last restored in the 1900's, prior to the German occupation in the 1940' all the windows were removed and stored in the french countryside

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        • #19
          Living in Paris, I have attended many of the free (but reservations recommended) 8pm saturday organ récitals at Notre Dame. The tourist hordes are thanksfully back to their hotels. I usually find a seat looking backwards, facing the organ rather than the choir and altar, trying to glimpse at the organist, who can see the choir above the panel of the newer (90's) electric console.

          To be perfectly honest, when watching the roof of the cathedral burn, I wasn't too worried about the main organ, which is located at the back, protected by the roof of the gallery connecting the two towers as well as the main vaulted stonework.

          For the same reason, I did not worry for the front (West) rosace, located behind the organ (and partly occulted by the pipework, which is a pity, even if an organ-lover should not say so). I was on the other hand extremely worried for the transept stained glass rosaces and other side windows. I figured the lead holding the bits of glass could melt and the pieces fall and shatter.

          Everything in gothic cathedrals can be rebuilt, but we have never succeeded in reproducing the wonderful blues and crimsons of medieval stained glass, and seldom succeeded in emulating the charm of the pattern and overpaint.
          Vincent
          __________________________________________________ ________________________
          Hybrid Home Organ : Viscount Sonus 45 with additional 154 real pipes. Steinway A 188. Roland LX 706. Pianoforte : Walter 1805 Copy by Benjamin Renoux. Harpsichords : Franco-German by Marc Fontaine, Jacob Kirkmann single (1752).

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          • myorgan
            myorgan commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you for sharing your observations and comments about the cathedral. I had forgotten about the lead holding the pieces of glass together.

            Michael

        • #20
          Vincent,

          There have been plenty of reports that the three rose windows survived but precious little about the fate of the other stained glass windows. Can you give the latest position on these others?
          Last edited by RogerM; 04-20-2019, 02:20 PM.
          Previous: Elka Crescendo 303, Technics G7, Yamaha EL-90
          Current: Yamaha AR-100

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          • Vincent
            Vincent commented
            Editing a comment
            As far as I have seen in the reports, nothing that cannot be cleaned. My nightmare now is some politicians or bishops wanting to make an "architectural gesture" with a new-fangled spire over the transept. Of course the one destroyed was a 19th century pastiche by Viollet-le-Duc, but it worked well.

          • myorgan
            myorgan commented
            Editing a comment
            Even though it was from the 19th century, I wouldn't mind a similar replacement. I did wonder if the spire was what caused the hole in the vault ceiling. Perhaps that could be rectified with lighter materials that would melt (like the lead) under similar circumstances vs. causing damage as it fell? Just speculating out loud.

            Michael

          • RogerM
            RogerM commented
            Editing a comment
            All Gothic cathedrals are unique but that spire was peculiar to Notre Dame and, I think, set it aside from all else in the world - so full marks to Viollet-le-Duc. I have mixed feelings about a ‘modern’ replacement. On balance I think a replica of the original is probably best but maybe we should allow the building to evolve, as it surely has already over the last 850 years.
            Last edited by RogerM; 04-21-2019, 01:43 PM. Reason: Correcting typos

        • #21
          It is worth considering that many of the "progressive" architectural proposals to rebuild Notre Dame feature an almost entirely glass roof. This means the 900 year old stone vaulted ceiling will be removed.
          The effect this will have on the acoustics of the space, and the voice of the organ, will be devastating.
          Furthermore, anyone who has experienced the space will attest to the wonderful optical effects when entering and traversing the dark stone and wood interior, illuminated primarily by candle light and stained glass windows - even during the day.
          A glass ceiling would utterly destroy the ambient experience of entering the mystical chamber and looking in wonder at the windows, streaming their colourful patterns throughout the space.

          I have zero tolerance for the majority of architects - they seek only to get the photo spread in the glossy magazines and win a few industry awards at swanky international awards dinners.
          Current:
          1971 T-202 with Carsten Meyer mods: Remove key click filters, single-trigger percussion, UM 16' drawbar volume correction. Lower Manual bass foldback.
          Korg CX3 (original 1980's analogue model).
          1967 Leslie 122 with custom inbuilt preamp on back panel for 1/4" line-level inputs, bass & treble controls. Horn diffusers intact.
          2009 Marshall 2061x HW Plexi head into Marshall 4x12 cabinet.

          Former:
          1964 C3
          196x M-102
          197x X5
          197x Leslie 825

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          • RogerM
            RogerM commented
            Editing a comment
            Couldn’t agree more. Never heard such a ridiculous idea.

        • #22
          Two thoughts on your post, Papus.

          First, I would not get too worked up about this. These are ideas that people have submitted responding to the call for submissions. This is intended to engage people in the process as various proposals are discussed. Some of them are pretty wild and some are undoubtedly tongue in cheek. One suggestion has been to make the roof into a parking lot. Anyone who has ever lived in a crowded urban environment gets the joke. Another idea is to turn the roof into a swimming pool.

          Second, it should be noted that when I.M. Pei proposed the glass pyramid for the Louvre, there was strong criticism. While there are still people who do not like it, it has become an iconic symbol loved by many people.
          Bill

          My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

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          • #23
            There is an excellent article in today's New York Times that gives a detailed description of the Notre Dame fire. I have included the link if you would like to read it. The brave souls who fought to extinguish the blaze expended heroic efforts. As the piece explains, things were perilously close to a complete loss of this treasure.
            A baffling alert. A race to the wrong building. Notre-Dame still stands only because firefighters decided to risk everything, a New York Times reconstruction has found.
            Bill

            My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

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            • #24
              Wow! What an article. I know those smoke sniffing systems well, having assisted with the engineering for an art museum. When properly maintained and tested they provide an early warning - potentially long before any regular smoke detector.

              We had multiple meetings regarding the nomenclature for the the fire alarm and security systems so that a quick glance at the front panels would provide as clear a description as the 32 character display allowed. The display included zone numbers and a simple map on the wall next to the unit showing the areas covered by each zone. We needed concise information for someone in a panic trying to figure out where the smoke was detected if the building was occupied when the alarm occurred.

              What puzzles me is that they had to call the fire department. Fire codes in the USA for commercial buildings require an automatic call from the fire alarm system to a monitoring station with dispatchers. And that call includes zone information from the fire alarm panel so the firefighters know where to look first.

              Protecting the workers' jobs by preventing them from testifying in the investigation seems... counterproductive.

              As with all high-tech equipment, it always comes down to the humans that interact with it.
              Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Saville Series IV Opus 209; Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Gulbransen Rialto; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI.

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              • #25
                Originally posted by AllenAnalog View Post
                What puzzles me is that they had to call the fire department.
                I don’t know about France but in the UK it is not uncommon for fire services not to attend automatic fire alarms (AFAs) unless there is a call confirming a fire. Others respond with a reduced attendance. This is because of the number of false alarms triggered by AFAs.
                Previous: Elka Crescendo 303, Technics G7, Yamaha EL-90
                Current: Yamaha AR-100

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                • myorgan
                  myorgan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I would think, though, that there are certain locations that supersede non-attendance at AFAs. I know of a high profile art gallery that was on the city's automatic response system. The fire department would show up, then ask questions.

                  One would think Notre Dame would be one of those locations.

                  Michael

                • AllenAnalog
                  AllenAnalog commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Here in the USA, most fire and burglar alarm systems go to a paid central monitoring station, which then can call the fire department or police department based on the automated information they receive. Sensitive buildings are treated as a respond-first, ask questions later basis, as noted by Michael.

                  I think the whole response sequence at Notre Dame should be the basis of a major overhaul in the thinking about how fire alarms are dealt with in historic buildings in France. Human error = lost time = potential lost lives and buildings. Time is of the essence in such matters, even if it results in the first responders finding no source for the alarm, canvassing the building and then categorizing it as a false alarm if an inspection yields no problems - with appropriate follow-up to determine the cause of the false alarm.
                  Last edited by AllenAnalog; 07-21-2019, 06:04 PM.

              • #26
                The inside story is bad -- very bad

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lB5QbMxvac

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                • #27
                  As a follow-up to this thread, PBS is airing a show on the building of Notre Dame de Paris on its series, Secrets of the Dead. Watching it right now.

                  Michael
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

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                  • #28
                    Sounds great -- I don't have a TV, mebbe it will show up in Youtube. The N-D subject has caught on there -- here's an awesome survey of the cathedral's history featuring lots of amazing VR
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7W9PwzZtzU

                    ....and half an hour on the organ's restorations -- subtitles are available
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIkZ2nDvGm4&t=2s

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                    • #29
                      Update–the show was mostly about the initial building and re-building in the 1800s, and nothing about the organ. We did hear organ music at some point during the show, but (presumably) not the Notre Dame organ.

                      Michael
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • #30
                        I happened to catch that show too, Michael. And was disappointed to hear no mention of the organ! Interesting story though. So amazing how these structures were built to last without today's machinery.
                        John
                        ----------
                        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

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