Zimbelstern

[Menschenstimme]

Through a comedy of errors, I have recently acquired a zimbelstern that is like a set of wind chimes in a circle with a spinning actuator that strikes the tubes. It appears to be skillfully hand-made, in spite of certain Rube Goldberg attributes. The little control circuit board is labeled "Vandy Enterprises, Inc."</P>


In its original configuration, it had a microswitch that would allow the actuator only one spin and then shut the thing off. This must have been used for a finale only. I removed the switch to allow the unit to keep ringing until turned off, as with a standard zimbelstern.</P>


Besides the customary plus and minus wires, there is an extra one that appears to trip a tiny relay. I disconnected this also. It may have had something to do with allowing the unit to restart even though the microswitch was engaged at the previous stop.</P>


Has anyone else here ever encountered one of these? Any clues as to who made it or where it came from? I would like to find some new drive belts for it. It uses two drive wheels and an idler wheel that appear to be made of black phenolic. I had to replace one belt with a rubber band.</P>


It does not sound bad (especially with the speed turned down as low at it will go); but I suspect that it would be almost inaudbile in a large church.</P>


Cheers!</P>

[Guest]

Re: Zimbelstern

Put it in a very prominent place, perhaps hammered on to the front of the pulpit or the altar, then people will notice it.

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Thank you; but we already have a very nice Klann zimbelstern at church. This is for my residence organ; I was merely observing that it makes a delicate sound which is actually ideal for a residence organ.</P>


Now, does anyone have any ideas about who made this thing and/or where it came from?</P>


[*-)]</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Zimbelstern



It sounds a bit like the one at my church.</P>


There is a central revolving post and a "T" arm with two dangling weights. The bells (six?) are on the outer circumference. Each bell can be moved in or out, in order to make the striker hit them moreloudly or softly.</P>


It is a rather delicate sounding Zimbelstern - I do wish I had gotten a louder one. The only other complaint I have is that it makes an audible "click" when I turn it on.</P>


I don't recall who made it, and unfortunately I don't have plans to go into the instrument anytime soon. I'll try to remember to look the next time I'm up in the chambers...</P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Thank you, SB32; but please keep inmind that my zimbelstern is not bells but literally a circle of about 25 wind-chime tubes. Your zimbelstern with actual bells and swinging lead strikerssounds more like the Klann that we have at church.</P>


[*-)][8-)]</P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Well, the zimbelstern saga is getting crazy. After testing it with a small 13.5 volt DC power supply, I hooked it up to the organ. It started doing something that it was not previously doing. When the stop control was turned off, the zimbelstern kept operating! I tested the SAM unit and it is working fine. How on earth the zimbelstern could keep working with the positive voltage switched off is beyond me. And, no, it is not merely slowing down and not stopped yet. It was running along on full power somehow. All I can surmise is that somehow this zimbelstern is incompatible with the "stop-sense" output of my Peterson Duo-Set combination/stop action. If one actually removed the stop action wire from the junction board, the zimbelstern would stop. Upon reconnecting the wire, it would not start up again until the stop was once again switch on. It gets even crazier. This bizarre phenomenon is intermittent and appears to be more likely to happen the longer the zimbelstern is left on. I spent hours trying connecting different wires in different ways with no luck. This thing has a mind of its own and I think my only hope is to connect with someone who recognizes this unit and is aware of its eccentricities.</P>


Dare I say it again? Angels and Ministers of Grace defend us!</P>


Thank you!!</P>


[:'(]</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Zimbelstern



Maybe its making up for all the times it sits there, idle. [:D]</P>

[Jay999]

Re: Zimbelstern

Hi Menchen....can you open up the bottom of the unit and rewire the + and - wires directly to the motor unit? That way, you'd be by-passing the relay inside, which may be doing some magic switching from your stop feed, or stop ground. After rewiring, if it still runs with the stop switch turned off, check the Sam unit circuits. I think your stop sense circuit is supposed to go to the combo action, and has some type of voltage on the sense circuit all the time. Instead, usea meter,..try to find the circuit that becomes active at the reed switch. (To keep from blowing up something in your combo action by possibly shorting it on the wrong circuit, it would be a good idea to unscrew the Sam from the stop rail and look for the circuit that goes to the reed switch). That is the circuit you want to use to turn the zymbelstern on and off with. Be sure to unplug the Sam unit before testing it....you want to completely remove it from the active voltage of the organ, as this probing around could cause a short. Best wishes....

[PeteKnobloch]

Re: Zimbelstern



It sure sounds like you have a wind chime unit for a Theatre Organ rather than a Zimbelstern for a church organ. This unit is usually connected to a momentary switch that starts the motor and strikes the chimes in an ascending or descending order and then stops after one revolution. These units have anywhere from 30-50 chimes on the wheel. </P>


As far as finding a belt for it, go to the hardware store and look for rubber "O" rings. They have sizes that will fit a 6" pipe that might work.</P>


I can't tell what is wrong with you removing the switch but the electronics might need this switch to keep the unit from turning ON when the +12v power is applied to the unit. Try putting the switch back into the circuit. </P>


PS - I reread your other post and it sure seems like the electronics needs the switch to turn it OFF after it finishes one revolution of striking the chimes. You might try re-installing the switch again and see if it at least stops after one revolution. Then try shorting the switch and see if it will stop immediately when the stop is turned OFF. </P>


Pete </P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Hi Jay and Pete and thank you both very much indeed !!</P>


Jay: I tried going straight to the motor (bypassing the circuitry), but then all speed control is lost and the unit spins too quickly. And you are correct in that the last thing I want to do is damage my Peterson Duo-Set Combination action (of which I am very fond).</P>


Pete: I had no idea there was such a thing as a theatre organ wind-chime unit. And yes, once I read your entire post; I am sure that this is what it is. And everything else you mentioned give me some ideas on how I may be able to use it asa zimbelstern. One mistake I made was not realizing that the switch + and the power + should be connected to two different sources and that only the switch + should be on the Peterson SAM stop key. And yes, I must experiment with shorting the mechanical microswitch, etc.</P>


Another option might be to install an external relay that operates from the stop key to cut the voltage completely on and off. As Jay said: That way, you'd be by-passing the relay inside, which may be doing some magic switching from your stop feed, or stop ground. Moreover, this would avoid overtaxing and damaging the reed switch in the Peterson SAM.</P>


And thank you, Pete, for the hardward store "O" ring suggestion! This would be more like a 4-inch pipe size; but these "drive belts" sure look like "O" rings now that you say that.</P>


I am confident that I may yet be able to get this thing functioning as a zimbelstern, ad hoc or otherwise.</P>


Again, many thanks!!</P>


[;)][D][&lt;:o)]</P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Well, it gets more interesting. I discovered that the SAM and reed switch are functioning prefectly, but there is some kind of "magic switching" going on within the solid-state console system. It is almost as though there is a current build-up and the stop remains switched on when it is not. While I have seen some strange feedback loops and ground effects (sic) over the years, this is a new one on me. The next step is to install an external relay that operates from the stop key to cut the voltage completely on and off. But this will share a common ground and thus may not solve the problem. I may end up by running the zimbelstern from its own separate small power supply. My guess is that these strange goings-on are due to the fact that I am operating a small 12V DC motor through the solid-state control system.</P>


In the back of my mind, I seem to recall an old service bulletin from Peterson that said something about lifting the chassis ground inside the Astron power supply to avoid some rare and unlikely bizarre effects that may occur under certain circumstances. I never bothered to alter the ground inside the Astron unit and have been using it for many years with no problems. Perhaps I have finally found one of these strange effects?</P>


Of course, a diode in just the right place has been known to absolve a multitude of sins.</P>


Comments, Mr. Spock?</P>


[^o)]</P>

[jbird604]

Re: Zimbelstern



Go to the Organ Supply Industries website:</P>


http://www.organsupply.com/</P>


Click on "catalog and customer area" then "view our catalog" After that, click on the link "catalog New!" and then choose section 10 of the catalog. Go to page 12 of that section and you will see organ wind chimes for sale, perhaps the very item you are tinkering with.</P>


Apparently, it is supposed to do a one-shot stroke each time it is triggered (by a piston, presumably, on a theatre organ). I guess this is the TO equivalent of a bell-tree in a drum set.</P>


Anyway, there might be some info in that catalog that would help you understand this thing.</P>


John</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Thank you, John!</P>


Yes, I have the small unit, but a slightly different/older version of the current models. But mine is so similar, it must be the same maker.</P>


This is good and helpful to know.</P>


Thanks again!!</P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Zimbelstern



Sorry, but I must resurrect this thread. I have hit a dead end on my "O" ring drive belts for my Zimbelstern (theatre organ wind chime). I got the unit up and running as a Zimbelstern with rubber bands; but they do not last very long. I contacted a friendly gentleman at OSI and discovered that although my unit looks almost identical to their wind chime units, that they neither built my unit nor have any drive belts for it. He suggested the plumbing "O" ring approach also.</P>


My brother just visited two plumbing supply places and they have nothing like this. These are very thin (like a thin rubber band), round (meaning round in cross-section as opposed to belt-like) black drive belts. One is 3-1/2 inches in diameter and the other is 4 inches. They have minimal stretch as would be appropriate for a good drive belt.</P>


Please: Does anyone out there have a clue?</P>


Thank you!</P>


[:'(]</P>

[toodles]

Re: Zimbelstern



Try this site: https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=168</P>


(I didn't know about them--I did the obvious, I googled on "drive belts".) I think all you will need to do is take accurate measurements, but at these prices you can afford to buy a dozen different sizes and try them out. FYI, durometer is a measure of hardness, and higher durometer will give you a stiffer, less elastic belt.</P>


Toodles</P>