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  • #16
    Originally posted by Leisesturm View Post
    I don't mean to give offense but I have to ask if all of your choir members understand that they must have two independent audio setups to make remote recording work? Only a few of our musicians are so equipped. If your people are recording tracks on their phones, how are they simultaneously listening to the guide track? Just trying to help.
    My singers listen on headphones to mp3s I send out using, I presume, I-pods or computers/laptops/tablets They seem to record their voices on phones judging by the format of what they return. Some of the older members can't cope with that and/or aren't prepared to send recordings of themselves singing solo. The mp3s I send out have my wife and I singing - later I edit our singing so it fits in with the ensemble. It works quite well. for our small, amateur, village church choir.

    I think you're responding to me (if I'm wrong, ignore this, please) - you don't want to give offence but, to be honest, I'm not sure what you are suggesting: that we didn't, in fact, make recordings? As a former music teacher I'm very familiar with multi-track recording, just not with this remote recording. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you.

    I sent in a recording of our first attempt at a hymn (on the Easter during lockdown thread) - not totally satisfactory, certainly, mainly for the reason I gave earlier, but none the less it gave pleasure to many of the church's congregation. The problem for us is that co-ordination is very difficult when they can't see the conductor (not that they watch much!), nor can they see each other or hear each other breathe. As very amateur singers that makes it difficult.

    In Audacity tracks and clips aren't the same. I haven't yet got to grips with clips yet, though.
    Last edited by Peterboroughdiapason; 04-19-2020, 01:50 PM.

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    • myorgan
      myorgan commented
      Editing a comment
      Originally posted by Peterboroughdiapason
      In Audacity tracks and clips aren't the same. I haven't yet got to grips with clips yet, though.
      That is correct, and I thought of addressing it, but didn't want to confuse the issue.

      Recording=A digital audio file containing one, OR MORE tracks.
      Track=Whole part of a recording.
      Clip=One smaller piece of an entire track.

      Hope that helps with the understanding.

      Michael

  • #17
    Drawbar Dave sent me this a few days ago, could be useful for this remote stuff:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmJU...vY3U2DeIYX6IYE
    Tom in Tulsa

    Fooling with: 1969 E100, 1955 M3, 1963 M100, Leslie 720

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    • #18
      Well, I just did something with Audacity that I hadn't tried before, and it was as easy as falling off a log. Not a solution for our "remote recording" or "virtual choir" productions, but it showed me how easy it is to use Audacity for sound-with-sound. (And yes, I know I'm late to the party. Everybody else probably already knows about this, though I found it quite amazing.)

      So, I wanted to try recording a four-part a capella number with ME singing all four parts. I opened Audacity and clicked on the "tracks" item in the menu bar. Added a new audio track. Then I clicked on the record button and simply sang part #1 sitting right in my chair in front of the computer. Didn't plug in a microphone or tweak anything. Just sang it and the computer's built-in mic evidently captured it decently enough. Then I pressed Stop and rewind. I clicked the item to add a second track, put on headphones, pressed Record, and sang part #2 while listening to part #1 in the phones. Next, pressed Stop, then rewind. Added a third track, pressed Record, and sang part #3 while listening to parts #1 and #2 in the phones. Finally, did the same for the #4 part.

      Gave it a listen, and -- voila' -- I had an instant recording in four parts. (the singing was awful, but it proved the concept.)

      Who'd'a'thunk it would be so utterly simple and easy? This was even easier than doing over-dubs with my old reel to reel tape machine. So now I know, and if I need to do it, I can literally make up some passable four-part rehearsal things for my choir or to distribute to the church during this shutdown.

      Of course track #1 could just as well have been an organ track, which would have in fact been a smart move. With an organ track to listen to, I could then lay down the melody and harmonizing parts with more confidence (and better pitch, no doubt). When all tracks are recorded, one could surely edit as needed, apply whatever effects desired, turn the level up or down on a given track. After that, I assume it's a snap to export a two-channel mix as WAV or MP3. (I installed a plug-in a long time ago so Audacity could export MP3's at any desired bit-rate.)
      John
      ----------
      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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      • #19
        Originally posted by Leisesturm View Post
        I don't mean to give offense but I have to ask if all of your choir members understand that they must have two independent audio setups to make remote recording work? Only a few of our musicians are so equipped. If your people are recording tracks on their phones, how are they simultaneously listening to the guide track? Just trying to help.
        It can be done on the same device. The student, choir member, etc. listens to the music source via headphones on the device, while recording to the same device via microphone. The audio output is configured to play through the built-in output (or headphone jack), while the microphone is configured to play through the built-in microphone (or microphone jack).

        Here is a screenshot where you can see those terms where you can configure the audio input and output in the program. Just look for the picture of the microphone at the bottom just above the 0-second mark, and the picture of the speaker just above the 3-second mark.

        Michael
        Click image for larger version  Name:	Screen Shot 2020-04-19 at 6.06.54 PM.png Views:	0 Size:	34.3 KB ID:	727650
        Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
        I opened Audacity and clicked on the "tracks" item in the menu bar. Added a new audio track. Then I clicked on the record button and simply sang part #1 sitting right in my chair in front of the computer. Didn't plug in a microphone or tweak anything. Just sang it and the computer's built-in mic evidently captured it decently enough. Then I pressed Stop and rewind. I clicked the item to add a second track, put on headphones, pressed Record, and sang part #2 while listening to part #1 in the phones. Next, pressed Stop, then rewind. Added a third track, pressed Record, and sang part #3 while listening to parts #1 and #2 in the phones. Finally, did the same for the #4 part.
        John,

        I'm so sorry you did it the complicated way. You don't actually need to create a new track because Audacity comes configured to automatically create a Stereo track when you press Record. Therefore, no need to create a track. You added a step, making it more complicated

        Michael
        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
        • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

        Comment


        • jbird604
          jbird604 commented
          Editing a comment
          Aha! Thanks for that tip, Michael. I'm a newby with this, though I've used it for years to simply edit existing files and export as MP3. I don't know that I've ever used Audacity to make a recording until just now! It just amazes me that I had this wonderful multi-tracking tool already on my computer and had been wringing my hands about how I might create some interesting music for my church in absentia.

          No matter how cool the tools though, I'm really out of my element when trying to do church as a studio exercise. Can't wait to get back to playing a LIVE organ for LIVE people present with me in the same room!

        • myorgan
          myorgan commented
          Editing a comment
          Isn't it interesting how certain times (Covid-19) end up pushing us in ways we least expect it? I guess that's why I haven't spent much time with "wailing and gnashing of teeth" during these times because I've had so much adversity in my life, I've already learned it's an opportunity for exponential growth.

          It's good to see so many people on the Forum pushing their limits to ever greater heights.

          Michael

        • jbird604
          jbird604 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, it sure helps to see it that way. I know that I've done far more practicing than normal, and that has helped me tremendously. I've also had time to spend on my "organ tinkering" that always seems so hard to find time for under normal circumstances. And we have re-embraced the concept of cooking at home! (Not always successfully, but at least we're trying again.) Thanks for reminding us that we can make lemonade if we are of a mind to do it.

      • #20
        Originally posted by myorgan View Post
        It can be done on the same device. The student, choir member, etc. listens to the music source via headphones on the device, while recording to the same device via microphone. The audio output is configured to play through the built-in output (or headphone jack), while the microphone is configured to play through the built-in microphone (or microphone jack).
        I think that would put my singers off!

        This has been a steep (but interesting) learning curve for me. I had never used Audacity before this month.
        • 1st service, for Holy Week. My wife and I singing with the organ on one track. Easy.
        • 2nd service, for Easter Day: I recorded the the hymns and anthem as before and sent that out to the singers to record their voices. Worked okay except that I couldn't change the organ volume independently.
        • 3rd Service for Low Sunday: Just one hymn - recorded my singing first, then added the organ, then the other singers' voices. I thought it might be easier for the singers that way but wasn't really as my unaccompanied singing was less rhythmical than just playing the accompaniment. I added myself singing tenor and bass.
        • 4th service (for the Sunday coming): a couple of hymns and an anthem - have recorded the organ, my wife and me separately and have sent out the mp3 to the singers. I'm hoping this will produce the best results so far.
        Organ music is no problem, of course.

        I have no mic socket on my laptop and wasn't able to get satisfactory results with the built-in mic. However I've now got a USB connector with both mic and line-in sockets and I can do exactly what you suggest, Michael. It's easier as it saves having to synchronise the tracks. However my singers are not that tech-savvy (even the young ones) and I wouldn't ask them to learn new skills.

        Next step: add video so the singers can be seen (more for our own amusement than for church use). I have no idea how to go about this or what programme to use. Any suggestions?

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        • #21
          I've used Blender for video editing. It's also open source and is pretty full featured. It has a much steeper learning curve though. I've also had trouble with some digital cameras not outputting a usable frame rate.
          Last edited by samibe; 04-20-2020, 01:53 PM.
          Sam
          Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
          Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.

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          • #22
            Originally posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
            Next step: add video so the singers can be seen (more for our own amusement than for church use). I have no idea how to go about this or what programme to use. Any suggestions?
            Peterborough,

            At this point, you've hit the end of my knowledge of current video technology. About 10-15 years ago, I used to teach video production. At that time, we had a license for FinalCut Express (Mac-based) and used that for the final compilation, however, I'm sure there are other, much better programs available for now.

            For quality audio recording, I use a hand-held Tascam recorder, then import it into Audacity. For quick-and-dirty audio recording, I use the built-in microphone for the Mac. There are many other permutations for recording (i.e. mixer w/microphones to computer, etc.), but it depends on what a person has on hand.

            By the way, recording the organ first and sending it out is definitely the way to go–accompaniment first, voices second. Have fun! Just think, you'll just get good at this and then the lockdown will be over. But there will still be snowdays!

            Michael
            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
            • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

            Comment


            • #23
              So many choirs seem to be doing it on Facebook etc. I don't suppose it can be that hard? I wonder if there's a way of doing it on Youtube. If I tried, the singers would be recording their contributions on mobile phones, Samibe, which Blender mightn't like!

              I think I'll give it a miss for the moment!

              Comment


              • myorgan
                myorgan commented
                Editing a comment
                Audio is rather simple, but video is another case altogether. I don't hesitate with audio, but learning a new video program can be quite a shallow learning curve.

                Michael

            • #24
              The way movie and TV production studios do it, video is indeed another case altogether. The audio is recorded separately from the video and must be synchronized (clappers) and kept synchronized (timecode) through the run of the 'take'. Consumer audio/video devices record the video and audio together, and thus they are synchronized by default. Whatever you do to the audio, the video follows. As I understand it, Audacity can be used to edit consumer video by just ignoring the video. The end results don't differ greatly from using a dedicated video editor. Remember, that is 'as I understand it'.

              The kids in the Praise Band are all photogenic Millenials and they are itching to 'see themselves' as they perform. They are a bit put out that members of the congregation think the music for last Sunday was not done by our band. Video of course would have made that clear. I see video rearing its ugly head in the not too distant future. I don't know what video editor will be used but there are scads of them. I know Blender gets a lot of praise but afaik it was developed mainly to do 3D animations of drawn (still) objects. Even more than with audio, Mac's are supposed to really shine when video is the assignment. I'm not a Mac guy but the guy who is doing our audio editing is so he will likely choose a Mac app for the job.

              Comment


              • #25
                Leisesturm,

                Yes, Macs do work with video much better than PCs–at least in my experience. It has to do with how they both process information.

                The other reason I mentioned video being another critter, is because each group of countries has a different video standard (USA & Canada=NTSC; Europe=PAL; Australia, etc.=SECAM). NTSC=29.97 frames per second, I think PAL=25 fps, and I'm not sure about SECAM. I still have the DVDs my wife purchased for me when she was in the UK, and I can't watch them because they are (presumably) PAL, and our standard is NTSC. I can change the coding in my laptop so I can watch them, but I only get so many standard assignments before I can't change it any more. It is my understanding all countries are working on unifying the video standards.

                Of course, there is always the great equalizer (*ou*ube, and other video-sharing sites), but the country standard differences still remain, to my knowledge. The Internet uses different encoding for digital video and audio, and I believe all countries are on the same Internet standard.

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

                Comment


                • #26
                  If I were going to try to do something it would only be putting faces on the screen, as lots of choirs are doing. What the singers would send me would be the output of their mobile phones - whatever that would be. I can't believe it could be that difficult but have no idea what software I would need or how to go about it. I just wondered if Youtube or Facebook had a facility for doing it - I presume not. In any case, I think I'm too old to learn this new trick!

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