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Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

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  • #16
    Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

    can't hurt to ask. squeekey wheel gets the oil. Get some time on a real pipe organ..it really is quite a different beast from any electronic.

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    • #17
      Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

      I agree very much with Farmboy. I asked one of the "big three" local organist (these three all have successful careers as concert organists) permission to play the organs at his church, and he really only had a couple of questions, what are you working on, what is your background and when were you planning to be there to play, oh, and what is your name and how do you spell it. It was very painless, and I have since January and February had permission to play a 1952 Holtkamp (so long as I don't change the presets), a 1986 Hradetzky and a 1996 positive (I can not remember the builder's name). So if you ask there is usually a reasonable chance that you'll get to play, but you have to ask. There is another church where I sometimes play, where I don't have formal permission to play but am on pretty good terms with the organist (although she usually gets my first name wrong calling me Dan instead of Don, but she knows who I am, it helps that she was the outside advisor for my senior project of documenting pipe organs in Cleveland).

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      • #18
        Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...



        [quote user="soubasse32"]If you were to win the lottery ... perhaps we could persuade you to make a tour of the world's finest pipe organs. [:)][/quote]

        </p>

        If you have a few spare million $$$ lying around SB and don't know what to do with it...[:P]
        </p>
        1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
        Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

          [quote user="davidecasteel"][quote user="radagast"]


          There is another thread where there are complaints about a new pipe organ using extensions and borrowing and the resulting dropouts that come from that. [/quote]</P>


          I believe this refers to an observation I made about a lovely pipe organ that had a very impressive stop list but only appeared to have 22 ranks. My comments were not intended to be considered as a complaint; in fact, I was asking if that particular use of the available ranks was a reasonable one. Several others then responded that they liked the distribution. And then some others commented that too much unification and borrowing could cause dropouts. I don't believe that those comments referred to that particular organ, however.</P>


          Nevertheless, I guess it is appropriate to ask this question.</P>


          David</P>


          [/quote]</P>


          Some others on that thread appeared to be complaining. So, I asked this question.</P>

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

            [quote user="nullogik"][quote user="soubasse32"]If you were to win the lottery ... perhaps we could persuade you to make a tour of the world's finest pipe organs. [:)][/quote]If you have a few spare million $$$ lying around SB and don't know what to do with it...[:P]
            [/quote]
            If I did have it to giveI'dwant your reassurance that you wouldn'tjust use it to buy a bigger toaster! [;)] [:D]

            That would be like never having been to an art museum and using your fortune to buythe biggestart book you can find ...instead of standing in the presence of masterpieces by Renoir, Van Gogh, etc..

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...



              I would rather have pipes, please. </P>


              (Oh, and in my dream home, is a lovely small Fisk for me to play on, or some other fine pipe organ). [:)]</P>

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

                I know I already stated my preference for pipes but I have even gone so far as to work out a fantasy stop list for my dream organ, but, the trouble with it is that I dreamed it up before I did my month-long immersion in pipe organs all over Cleveland (that was my Senior project, documenting pipe organs in Cleveland for the AGO, things were supposed to be up on the local chapter's website, but I don't know when the webmaster will get them up) I think I may think up another set of specs, perhaps smaller than the first, and more cohesive, and with more mutations, mixtures and stops above 4'.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

                  [quote user="nullogik"]


                  [quote user="soubasse32"]If you were to win the lottery ... perhaps we could persuade you to make a tour of the world's finest pipe organs. [:)][/quote] </P>


                  If you have a few spare million $$$ lying around SB and don't know what to do with it...[:P]
                  </P>


                  [/quote]</P>


                  I hope that the next time a Cavaille-Coll is dismantled and put out to the trash that someone with enough money will rescue it.</P>

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...



                    For me, it'd most likely be a unified pipe organ over an electronic counterfeit, although I wouldn't rule out a late model straight digital organ over a beat-to-hell Wicks 3 rank practice unit organ if it was in deplorable condition!</P>


                    Luckily for me, when my dad built his 19 rank instrument inthe family residencemany years ago, it had moreindependent stops than borrowed ones, even with the shoe-string budget he was on (and the fact that the entire pipe organ was primarily made upof misc. used parts). The 8 and 4' stopped flute in the Swell had its 16' extension in the Pedal, and the Great 3-rank Mixture was a unified stop, made up from a 2' Fifteenth and an independent 1 1/3' mutation rank...pretty much the remainder of the instrument was straight!</P>

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...



                      Nu stuck his neck out and voted for digital. His head is now in a basket about to be buried with his body.I'm going to give him a little backup. Not to say that -- all other things being equal -- I'd actually prefer to play a digital. But all things are usually not equal.</P>


                      Many of the pipe organs that Isee, in the course of working in different churches, are in poor repair. Sure, I'm an organ tech, and can correct at leastthe worst faults of most organs given enough time and if the church is willing to pay for it. But there are still bunches of churches out there with really BAD old pipe organs that they are hanging on to for sentimental reasons, or because they think that any old pipe organ just beats any pipeless organ.</P>


                      There are pipe organs still doing duty after 75 years in an environment where the temperature gets down to near0 degrees (F) in the winter and up to 110 in the summer. Where the heat and air get turned off except on Sundays, and the organ is exposed to these extreme swings continually. Many of these old organs almost never get any maintenance. You can imagine how bad the tuning gets, not to mention all manner of mechanical problems that develop. Stops that don't play, notes that don't play or that cipher on some stops, Wretched note to note regulation, shimmy in the reservoirs that makes it sound like you've got an old-lady-soprano tremulant on all the time.</P>


                      Capture actions that either don't work at all, or won't work on all the stops, or, when they do work, make a racket that can be heard all over the church, spoiling the moment when you want silence behind your quietest section of a piece.</P>


                      Just imagine the worst old worn-out organ you've ever played and I can probably show you one worse in Arkansas.</P>


                      So, I'd certainly ratherserve in a churchwith a decent digital thanone of these old wheezing, gasping, ciphering, clattering collections of coliginous junk. (To quote "The Wizard of Oz.")</P>


                      Of course "decent digital" means one that is properly installed, with adequate audio equipment, correctly voiced,in good working order,and placed in a good acoustic environment. That rules out a good many digitals, but there are many out there that were installed by competent dealers, that would fill the bill for me.</P>


                      So, someone take the axe and chop off my head too. I'm waiting . . . . </P>


                      John</P>
                      <P mce_keep="true"></P>
                      John
                      ----------
                      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

                        [quote user="jbird604"]

                        Nu stuck his neck out and voted for digital. His head is now in a basket about to be buried with his body.I'm going to give him a little backup. Not to say that -- all other things being equal -- I'd actually prefer to play a digital. But all things are usually not equal.</p>...


                        So, someone take the axe and chop off my head too. I'm waiting . . . . </p>

                        <p mce_keep="true">John
                        </p>

                        [/quote]</p>

                        That makes two of us! Lets hope the correct heads get buried with the right bodies!!! [:D]
                        </p>
                        1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
                        Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...

                          [quote user="jbird604"] There are pipe organs still doing duty after 75 years in an environment where the temperature gets down to near0 degrees (F) in the winter and up to 110 in the summer. Where the heat and air get turned off except on Sundays, and the organ is exposed to these extreme swings continually. Many of these old organs almost never get any maintenance. You can imagine how bad the tuning gets, not to mention all manner of mechanical problems that develop. Stops that don't play, notes that don't play or that cipher on some stops, Wretched note to note regulation, shimmy in the reservoirs that makes it sound like you've got an old-lady-soprano tremulant on all the time.


                          Capture actions that either don't work at all, or won't work on all the stops, or, when they do work, make a racket that can be heard all over the church, spoiling the moment when you want silence behind your quietest section of a piece.[/quote]I promise I won't chop off your head for preferring a digital. [:)]

                          But your post does bring up the point - why are so many pipe organs in such poor repair? Obviously these churches had enough money at some point to buy a pipe organ; that is a sizeable investment - why not maintain it?

                          If they only could haveset aside enough money to keep the organ inmodestly good shape over the years, they wouldn'teven be temptedto take it to the garbage dump.

                          Even more troublesome to me, is that there are those organists who are not content with 'x' number of stops, or they want a transposer (or any other such gizmo), or they want to have a handful of 32' stops(of course in a tiny church), or they want to be able to play a chorus of "oohs" and "aahs".

                          Or maybe they just like the pinball machine effect of lighted drawknobs.

                          That such organists can influence churches to dump their pipe organs (which probably have provided faithful service for generations) is incomprehensible. There ought to be a law!

                          I promised your head wouldn't bechoppedoff-however those 'other' people... [:)]</P>

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Enough complaining. Which would you rather have...



                            Of course, there are a great many digitals (or analog electronics) in very bad repair as well. Just because an organ is relatively modern doesn't guarantee that it will be in good working order. And it's a rather rare thing to find a digital that is in good working, properly installed and voiced, and located in a wonderful acoustic environment.</P>


                            Just as with pipe organs, churches purchasing a digital need to commit to the necessary upkeep. Otherwise it will get run down and have problems, and less than 20 years later some organ salesman will convince them to junk it in favor of the newest thing with the latest bells and whistles.</P>


                            John</P>
                            <P mce_keep="true"></P>
                            John
                            ----------
                            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                            Comment

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