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  • jt1stcav
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    [quote user="nullogik"]Has anyone downloaded and listened to the demo CD from Hymn Technology's website? I was not very impressed with the sounds which appeared to have been pulled off some kind of el-cheapo digital keyboard - the organ sounds are laughable. I also got the impression they just typed a lot of scores into something like Sibelius/Finale and converted the stuff into MIDI, because they way the songs/hymns were played was like it was done by a robot with a perfect sense of timing making it very difficult to sing along to and sounding very robotic.
    [/quote]</P>


    Just a note on MIDI performances on the pipe organ...</P>


    Since I'm not an organist (can only play marginally by ear), and I had my dad's residence pipe organ installed in the house, what better way to actually hear a major organ composition by a famous composer without mistakes than to have a MIDI interface installed in the organ's relay and a MIDI processor inside the console, andtype inthrough a computer keyboard a complete work onto a sequencer program, arrange and edit it, and play it back through the pipe organ (a digital player organ so to speak,instead ofthe oldWelteor Kimball mechanical paper-roll players)! </P>


    In its raw form without any tempo changes or other editing, these MIDI music files added to the Cakewalk DOS sequencing software and played through the pipe organ did sound mechanical (robotic) with its perfect timing! No natural pauses or notes/chords stretched longer or playedshorter to add to the sense of realism (as if an actual organist was seated at the console playing with feeling)...just perfectly timed notes played at the same exact tempo from beginning to end without gradual increases/decreases in speed. In their beginning stages, these music filessounded dreadful!</P>


    After each and every note from the score was typed into the computer's sequencer tracksone note at a time by hand, then the realfun began! If for instanceI wanted to arrange the piece to resemble Virgil Fox's playing style, I would arrange the tempo changesat various fast or slowtiming throughout the work to match his romantic/symphonic playing technique, sometimes evenstretching certain note lengths to merge with other notes (like rolling/slurring notes/chords into others so not to hear their individual breaks between them). The opposite would be true if I wanted to arrange a work to resemble the playing style of Jean Guillou, with his fast upbeat tempo changes and shortened and detached staccato style of playing. All this editing and arranging was very time consuming, listening to brief instances within the music's progression over and over again on CDs so to capture just how Fox or Guillou performed that veryexact moment, and then arranging the notes on the sequencer's tracks to emulate that precise moment in time exactly the way these organists did...until the entire composition was completed and the MIDI file finished for playback!</P>


    All the finished MIDI files I arranged didNOT sound like mechanical, typed in notes with perfect timing...each piece sounded as if an organist was seated at the console playing it right in front of you! I despised the usual robotic sounding MIDI music, and I made sure each and everycomposition I added toour sequencer sounded like it was played by a human being with heart and feelings! It wasn't easy, but it was do-able.</P>


    The organ's now sold (dammit), and the MIDI music files sit silentlyin the old 8088 computer's 256MB hard drive. I never got the chance to professionallyrecord every finished music file performed through the pipe organ for prosperitylike I wanted to...only a fewworks played on the organmy dad recorded manyyears ago with his DAT recorder exist today, and they're not very good (recording levels were settoo low, resulting in muddy sounding performances). I wish the organ was still installed at home...I'd personally invite each and everyone of you on this forum to the house just to hear how realistic all these MIDI performances sounded on our residence pipe organ!</P>

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  • Jason E
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    [quote user="Jason E"][quote user="Greg"]

    There is a site that does all the hymns on an i-pod.
    </p>

    [/quote]</p>

    Sounds interesting. Where is it? </p>

    [/quote]</p>

    Greg, you have not replied to my inquiry. Eh?
    </p>

    Regarding my avatar, some of you don't much fancy it, love is blind.</p>

    And you all do know that the great Cameron's new Telarc CD will be released next month? Sorry, I just can't wait.</p>

    </p>

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  • nullogik
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    I don't know if Greg is talking abou this one, but I know Kevin Mayhew sells their hymn accompaniment CDs preloaded on to an IPOD Nano...</P>


    http://www.kevinmayhew.co.uk/Shop/Se...spx?title=ipod</P>

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  • ReedGuy
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    Soubasse32, your story sounds so sad, and not to mention, dare I say, insulting. There you are, ready to play, and this minister announces that this high tech gizmo will do away with the need for an organ or an organist. So I guess the minister in question would prefer a Bargain Bob's version of a worship service. I wonder how he would feel if someone came up and brought in an inflatable minister, a CD player and said, "And now we have someone who can do away with any need for a minister. And best of all, if the sermon is boring, or too academic full of theological treatises and no heart, or just plain uninspiring, we can just shut it off, and pick another CD!"</P>


    On a separate note, every now and then I need totravel faraway from the city. There is a church there that has been using for the longest time a machine which is connected to their Rodgers digital organ which has the organ play all of their hymns for Sunday service. I've never had a chance to hear this thing. Sometimes I help them out as a thank you to them for letting me practice there. When the service ends, I've been told that they never knew the organ could sound that way, "you make me want to sing better," and "we'll never be able to afford you." They did get an organist a while ago butit's a casual position due to lack of funds there,but I've never met her in person. I do know, though,that she's cool with me being there (as a guest, I always check that it's okay first). </P>


    So hey, there are people out there who know that a real human is better than any machine. And, there are churches out there who simply can't afford an organist, so what other recourse do they have I guess, than to have one of these machines. So as much as I dislike the machine being used to replace a human, if they don't have the money, well what else can they do? </P>
    <P mce_keep="true"></P>

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  • Jason E
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    [quote user="Greg"]

    There is a site that does all the hymns on an i-pod.
    </p>

    [/quote]</p>

    Sounds interesting. Where is it? </p>

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Pratt
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    It would really be dreadful if a churchused oneof those things to play their Stamps-Baxter stuff. Imagine a mechanical happy-clappy robot-like "I'll fly away" playing over and over again..

    Leave a comment:


  • Greg
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    Haha.</p>

    Did it come with a playing mannequin of Cameron Carpenter at the console[]
    </p>

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  • soubasse32
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    I used to play at a lovely chapel that had a very romantic organ from 1930 - it had expression chambers on either side of the altar with several beautiful celeste stops. It also had a very warm principal chorus with lots of fundamental - perfect for hymn singing.

    This particular churchhad manyministers who would serve for a while and then move on. Oneof these ministerswas to preside at an extraservice immediately following the one I had played.

    Heopened upa Bible-shaped gizmo, sat it on the altar and punched a few buttons. A hymn began to play - it was a very robotic, melody-only rendition which sounded to me like those silly greeting cards that play a song when you open them. [] I'm not sure it was even loud enough for anyone to hear, if they were singing.

    This minister seemed entirely pleased with himself, and announced that this wonderful high-tech inventionwould completelydo away with the need for an organist or an organ. Hethen commencedto do the service without me. I didn't stick around.

    I've pondered this moment on many occasions - how strange it was that this fellow and his infernal contraption were but a few feet away from an extremelyfine organ and avery ready/willing/ableorganist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greg
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    oh I am referring to sequencing actual pipes.......not simulated electric sounds.</p>

    I'm not sure even sequencing pipes is that much better than electronic sounds because say you have a service where there aren't many people in attendance and you have the organ registration set for a larger congregation it could be blasting everyone to death. At least with a digital organ someone can go and turn the volume down a bit.
    </p>

    Leave a comment:


  • NYCFarmboy
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    [quote user="Greg"]

    [quote user="NYCFarmboy"]I like the idea myself (ducks)......not alot of pipe organs have been wired up for sequencing, but for the ones that do, this would be very useful for churches that don't have an organist, but perhaps someone who could at least then "operate" the organ for some hymns.[/quote]</p>

    I can understand why churches do it if they have no musician at all to lead the music.
    </p>

    Why not just stick a DVD recording on of the sermon/homily or pass round a credit card reader round at the offertory or do prayer time via text if churches are going to allow a hymn karaoke.....
    </p>[/quote]

    oh I am referring to sequencing actual pipes.......not simulated electric sounds. I do agree that just playing a hymn thru a electric setup...well that is no different than a DVD thru a bigscreen t.v. etc.......sorta like going to hear an orchestra and instead someone places a boombox on the stage and you sit there and listen

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  • nullogik
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    [quote user="Jay999"]

    He replied that they were completely happy with their situation, and would not be interested in hiring an organist.</p>


    That's sad!</p>

    [/quote]</p>

    Perhaps they have had bad experiences with previous resident organists. Unfortunately some of our fellow organist brethren let the side down by being bad tempered old gits and others are simply unreliable and turn up late (after the service has started) or phone up at the last minute claiming to be ill when we all know they have a hang-over. So I can understand if particular Churches can't be bothered dealing with such people when a computer playback system will always be there and never turn up late...but then every profession has it's "bad apples".</p>

    Has anyone downloaded and listened to the demo CD from Hymn Technology's website? I was not very impressed with the sounds which appeared to have been pulled off some kind of el-cheapo digital keyboard - the organ sounds are laughable. I also got the impression they just typed a lot of scores into something like Sibelius/Finale and converted the stuff into MIDI, because they way the songs/hymns were played was like it was done by a robot with a perfect sense of timing making it very difficult to sing along to and sounding very robotic.
    </p>

    Leave a comment:


  • Greg
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    [quote user="NYCFarmboy"]I like the idea myself (ducks)......not alot of pipe organs have been wired up for sequencing, but for the ones that do, this would be very useful for churches that don't have an organist, but perhaps someone who could at least then "operate" the organ for some hymns.[/quote]</p>

    I can understand why churches do it if they have no musician at all to lead the music.
    </p>

    Why not just stick a DVD recording on of the sermon/homily or pass round a credit card reader round at the offertory or do prayer time via text if churches are going to allow a hymn karaoke.....
    </p>

    Leave a comment:


  • Jay999
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player



    Here's what's sad....</P>


    I have a former organ service client over in Mississippi. Their organist died. Not able to find another organist, they installed a Peterson system with record/playback capabilities. They paid a professor of church organ music to come in and record their hymn book, and quite a few preludes, offertories, and postludes. They have been using that system for quite a few years now....</P>


    Last year, one of my organists I had been working for in Birmingham, moved with his wife to Mississippi, so she could finish up her law degree at 'Ol Miss, in Oxford. The organist knew that I take care of a few instruments in Mississippi, and asked if I could possibly help him find a job over there for a couple of years. So, I called one of the members of this Peterson system church (who could have made a proposal to hire this organist). He replied that they were completely happy with their situation, and would not be interested in hiring an organist.</P>


    That's sad!</P>

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  • NYCFarmboy
    replied
    Re: Automatic Hymn Player

    I like the idea myself (ducks)......not alot of pipe organs have been wired up for sequencing, but for the ones that do, this would be very useful for churches that don't have an organist, but perhaps someone who could at least then "operate" the organ for some hymns.

    Leave a comment:


  • nullogik
    replied

    Leave a comment:

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