Organ Insurance

[BOZ]

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: -webkit-monospace; font-size: 12px; line-height: 14px; white-space: pre-wrap; ">I will be insuring my house-organ since it could never be replaced if destroyed or damaged extensively. For those of you who insure your personal organs, I was wondering how you are doing it? Do you have a rider on your homeowner's coverage, or a separate policy? I will be going for cost-replacement and blanket coverage for as many disasters as possible. I would also be interesting to hear about experiences with various insurance companies. Do they pay or declare "an act of God" that is not covered?Any opinions or general comments on this topic are most welcome?Thank you.</span></p>

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[Menschenstimme]

Re: Organ Insurance



My limited experience in this area follows:</P>


Even Lloyds of London refused to insure my residence pipe organ against the earthquakes here in southern California. Most homeowner's policies refused to insure it as a separate entity as one often does with a six-figure piano, work of art, piece of jewelry, etc. My current, long-time homeowner's policy, originally Prudential and now Liberty Mutual (same policy with a name-change) has agreed to cover the organ for up to the general amount alloted to the contents of the house. The organ would cost $200,000 to $250,000 to replace new. This is less than the current contents total of the policy. Thus if the house burns to the ground, I have the option of replacing the pipe organ and having cheap furniture, etc., or having good furniture, etc., and no pipe organ. But at least I have some coverage. However, I have no earthquake insurance for anything, mainly because the deductibles are so high and earthquake policies no longer cover contents, only the structure. But it is November and it is like a beautiful spring day outside right now. Thus, we tolerate the earthquakes. SIGH!</P>


EDIT: My biggest worry is the "crap" in the garage falling on my beloved automobile during an earthquake. Perhaps it is time to doa serious garage cleanout? DOUBLE SIGH!!</P>

[BOZ]

Re: Organ Insurance



For everyones information, I purchased organ insurance from the agent who covers my home. The cost was 1% of the replacement cost. It is not an all-inclusive policy, however, as there are serveral exclusions: the usual acts of God, war, nuclear contamination, etc. and, interestingly, electrical damage caused by an electrical event outside the house. I assume this means a power surge. Lightning was not excluded.</p>

I hope I never have to collect on this policy since I suspect they will try to wiggle out of it. Insurance companies disgust me: like banks, they're always ready to take your money, but hardly willing to give you what you are entitled to.</p>

I'd love to hear of anyones experience with insurance companies, both good and bad.</p>

Cheers,</p>

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[Guest]

Re: Organ Insurance



I know of a story that's interesting. The only first-hand knowledge I have is what I learned directly from Wicks organ company. This is because I am deciding whether to be interested in the remaining pipe ranks and console.The story goes something like this:</P>


A large 6 division, 4-manual 1950's vintage Wicks was removed from University Pres. in Seattle and replaced with a Reuter in 1998(?). A fellow procurred the Wicks organ and was housing it in three locations - awaiting donation to his church. One of the locations - a house I assume - burned to the ground and every pipe over 7ft, the entire Bombarde, and several wind chests were destroyed. Wicks was contacted for an estimate to submit to the insurance company forreplacement ofall the damaged pipe work and chests. The cost: $330,000</P>


Meanwhile, the church decided to build a gymnasium instead of a new nave. So the project has come to a dead end.</P>


Ouch!</P>

[OrgansR4Me]

Re: Organ Insurance



I had several electronic organs compromised when my home had to be gutted in 2004 after double hits from Frances and Jeanne -- and a good soaking from the remnants of Ivan. I had a good Technics organ for which I was concerned about exposure to moisture as being digital it was more sensitive than the rest of my collection at the time.</P>


After seeing the replacement value approaching $20,000, I was told that valuable instruments have to be covered separately, but for Good Will they would allow $2000 in repair cost: Bottom line we go $18,000 out of a $46,000 contents clause.</P>


With results like that, I didn't see any reason to pay them more in the future. The organ has a few memory flaws, but has come back to reasonable playing condition. I learned alot about negotiating with Insurance and the previous poster is right. They don't intend to pay a penny more. One adjuster that wanted to get us our policy limit quit and went home he was so disgusted with the pressure to keep the payouts down!</P>

[BOZ]

Re: Organ Insurance



If I had a valuable instrument, say costing over $50K to replace, I would consult with a lawyer regarding the terms of the contract and pay-out in the event of a catastrophe.</p>

Perhaps a legal person could phrase the contract in a way that less wiggle room was possible for the insurance company. Then, if they refuse to pay, go back to the lawyer and pursue a lawsuit.</p>

[Clarion]

Re: Organ Insurance



[quote user="BOZ"] I will be insuring my house-organ since it could never be replaced if destroyed or damaged extensively. For those of you who insure your personal organs, I was wondering how you are doing it? Do you have a rider on your homeowner's coverage, or a separate policy? I will be going for cost-replacement and blanket coverage for as many disasters as possible.[/quote]</P>


BOZ, I am pretty familiar with contract law, and especially contract law pertaining to insurance contracts; and as an informed consumer, I don't have any special insurance on my organ beyond the same blanket "Replacement Cost" insurance coverage on the remaining contents of my house. To make things simple, my insurer provides the same ridiculouscoverage for my contents as it does for the building; so I never have to be concerned about having enough coverage for contents.</P>


Unlike automobile insurance, where the exact wording of every policy issued within a given jurisdiction is identical, prescribed by the Insurance Act of each state and province. Homeowners' insurance is substantially less regulated, and can vary from one company to another. </P>


"Replacement Cost" is great! I know of a family that had an unused 80 year old rickety out-of-tune piano stored in their basement. When a water pipe burst, flooding the basement, and "damaging" the piano, under an ACV (Actual Cash Value) policy, the insurance company would have given them $50! But since they had "Replacement Cost" coverage, the insurer instructed them to just go, find anew piano, and send them the bill!! That's the way "Replacement Cost" should work, but some of the sleazier companies, after pretending to sell "Replacement Cost" insurance, insert weasel clauses that make the coverage worthless. For instance, as one of those guys that actually reads a policy before he buys it; I looked over a potential new "Replacement Cost" policy from State Farm. It looked pretty good all the way through until I got the the small-printweasel clause on the back page: "In no event shall Replacement Cost exceed 4 times the Actual Cash Value of in item." It not only not a "Replacement Cost" policy, but you are back having to deal with the primary reason one would buy "Replacement Cost" to begin with: To avoid having to engage in endless debate with some sleazy insurance adjuster!!</P>


So, basically: Read the policy very carefully before buying it!</P>


[quote user="BOZ"] I would also be interesting to hear about experiences with various insurance companies.[/quote]</P>


I'm sort of fortunate here in Ontario, to be able to get insurance from "The Co-operators", the best, and largest, insurance company in all of Canada. It's a non-profit company owned by the credit unions and co-operatives across the country.The purpose of creating the company way back in the '40s, was to provide the people with a decent, honest, ethical, insurance company as an alternative to the rampant, dishonest, unethical practices so commonly embraced by most of the other insurers of the day.</P>


As sort of an aside, I was personally acquaintedwith thegeneral manager of the aforementioned insurance company of long long ago.On occasion when his next door neighbour returned from an idyllic winter way down south, his neighbour discovered that squirrels had gained entry to his house, and eaten all four legs from his grand piano!! Guess how long it took to includeretroactive squirrel-damage coverage in the standard household policy!![;)]</P>


[quote user="BOZ"] Do they pay or declare "an act of God" that is not covered?
[/quote]</P>


Although I've read a hostof insurance policies, I don't ever recall a term like "Act of God" appearing in any of them. That tends to be a buzz term used by idiot junior news reports who don't have the slightest clue as to what they are talking about!</P>


The primary purpose of insurance policies, is to insurance against "Acts of God", i.e "A manifestation of the forces of nature that are unpredictable, and impossible unforsee; a result of the direct immediate and exclusive operation of the forces of nature, uncontrolled or influenced by the power of man, and without human intervention, of such a character that it could not have be avoided by prudence or forsight, cf. Court of Appeal (Nicols vs Marshland (1876), 2 Ex. D. I (CA).</P>


The primary exclusions contained in a standard policy are: earthquake/land-subsidence and flood.</P>


The earthquake/land-subsidence thing, isn't much of an issue if you don't live in an earthquake zone; or haven't built your house on the edge of a cliff that's about to crumble under you. As for flood, you should know pretty much what the chances are of having that happen. You can almost always purchase additional insurance to cover these eventualities, but if you deem such insurance necessary, you probably won't be able to afford it!</P>


Then there are the basic uninsurables: Radioactive contamination (insured independently by the Atomic Energy Commission), war, riot, insurrection, terrorism, etal.</P>


For the most part, there is no advantage to insuring your instrument beyond the protection provided by your "Replacement Cost" coverage.</P>


For the ultimate coverage available to the very rich and famous, then Chubb Insurance is the way to go. No matter what happens, just give them a call, and the settlement cheque will be on it's way:</P>


BOZ calling Chubb in 2019: "Hey Chubb! When I went downstairs this morning, my 20 year old organ had disintegrated into a pile of ash!</P>


CHUBB: How much did you pay for the organ?</P>


BOZ: $50,000</P>


CHUBB: Sorry to hear of your loss. Our cheque in the amount of $50,000 payable to you is already in the mail! You should receive it tommorow. Do you need an extra expense money for cleanup??</P>


Is CHUBB insurance affordable? Sure . . . if you are rich and famous! :-)</P>
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<DIV> BOZ:</DIV>
<DIV>If I had a valuable instrument, say costing over $50K to replace, I would consult with a lawyer regarding the terms of the contract and pay-out in the event of a catastrophe.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P mce_keep="true">Sort of an unlikely scenario. I would suggest that anyone with the resources to buy a $50K organ would hardly need the services of a lawyer to read a contract to them. That's something I reserve for mythree-year-old grand daughter!</P>
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<DIV> BOZ:</DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps a legal person could phrase the contract in a way that less wiggle room was possible for the insurance company. Then, if they refuse to pay, go back to the lawyer and pursue a lawsuit.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P mce_keep="true">If you figure that you possess the resources toencourage an insurance company to write an independent contract favouringyour individual concerns, then you probably don't need insurance!!</P></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
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[Clarion]

Re: Organ Insurance

<P mce_keep="true">Duplicate posting.</P>

[BOZ]

Re: Organ Insurance



Clarion,</p>

Thank you, kindly, for taking the time to write up this response. You've made some good points and suggestions. The most obvious: more carefully read the contract. </p>

I've seen the ads for the Chubb Group over the years and figured they must be high-end insurers. My end is not so high that it needs that level of insurance, however.</p>

Cheers,</p>

 </p>

[circa1949]

Clarion



I am surprised Clarion Insurance has not come up.</p>

http://www.clarionins.com/
</p>

They specialize in brokering musical instrument insurance. I doubt they insure ridiculously expensive instruments like Stradivarius and Del Gesusviolins. Folks probably go to Lloyds for stuff like that. Note that they do not actually underwrite their policies, like mortgages I suppose, they sell them to other companies that actually provide the insurance. I think mine was owned by The Hartford.
</p>

IIRC the policy I had a few years ago for my used Allen organ was $10000 in coverage for $240 a year. I only had a for one year, then I moved and decided to get a more "upscale" homeowners insurance for my new house, which was an enhanced replacement policy and had generous personal property protection with no limit on a single item.</p>

</p>

[Clarion]

Re: Clarion

[quote user="circa1949"]


I am surprised Clarion Insurance has not come up.</P>


http://www.clarionins.com/
</P>


They specialize in brokering musical instrument insurance.[/quote]</P>


Okay, at the outset, just to clarify:</P>


1.Clarion is <U>not</U> an insurance company.They are just insurance salesmen.</P>


2. Insuring an item of personalproperty throughan insurance agency that "specializes" in insuring your particular kind of property, will commonly cost 2 - 4x the cost of obtaining the very same coverage from youryour usual home insurer. </P>


3.For portable instruments such as orchestral instruments, the standard home contents policy commonly restricts coverage for contents temporarily removed from the residence to $2,000. So that kind of coverage might not be suitableforyour Stradivarius; but for organs that are generally permanently resident, that's not a problem.For those travel with their instruments away from the prinicpal residence, then a Personal Property Floater obtained from you regular household contents insurer, is the most economical and sensible way to go.</P>


4. Replacement Cost Insurance:You really have to read your policy carefully on this one; and pay <U>extremely</U> careful attentionto each and <U>every</U> word in thepolicy! </P>


Replacement Cost Insurance, is a commonly used termfor coverage that provides for buying you a brand new instrument with an instrument ofsimilar kind quality and usefulness without any deduction for depreciation . . . ! For instance: If you happen to own a 30 year old Allen organ that originally cost $100,000!!, but only cost you $500; if it was destroyed in a fire etal, the insurance company would be obligated to buy you a brand new organ of similar $100,000 kind,quality and usefulness!!</P>


In an apparent effort to capitalize uponfamiliar the Replacement Cost Insurance term, Clarion Insurance has employed a similar buzz-concept which sounds thesame, but means the exact opposite! Instead of providingReplacement Cost Insurance,Clarion provides Replacement Instrument Coverage:We also cover the difference in the instrument’s value before the loss and the value after the loss (if any).</P>


So with an aged Allen Organ that initially cost $100,000, the settlement would be:</P>


Standard Homeowner's Replacement Cost Insurance = $100,000.00</P>


Standard Clarion Insurance Policy = $1,ooo! [:|]</P>


[quote user="circa1949"]IIRC the policy I had a few years ago for my used Allen organ was $10000 in coverage for $240 a year.[/quote]</P>


Not very good value for the $$$. That's awfully expensive!</P>

[circa1949]

Re: Clarion



"Not very good value for the $$$. That's awfully expensive!"
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Yes...I thought so too. That is why I only had it one year. I still thought the information might be useful for renters or others who were interested and/or did not have a homeowners policy.
</p>

Ahh the irony of someone called Clarion posting about the poor value of Clarion...</p>

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