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Speaker Screen Pipe Facade Design Opinions Sought

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  • Larrytow
    replied
    A scale 43 rank will have a 6 & 1/4" diameter low C ( going from memory, but over 6" anyhow ), and will be at least 110" tall or so. The tallest pipe in this facade space can be only 87" tall. I'm not adverse to cutting them obviously, but then you get into the length to diameter proportion issue again. I won't use tin / lead pipes of any type to build a largish display only facade. They have to be zinc, and most standard 8' ranks have only have 17 to 21 zinc bass pipes. So if you don't start with low C, you run out of pipes to fill the width.

    No ! There will be no PVC pipes here. I would never build such a thing for any church.

    The stained glass windows are staying right where they are. They were bought and installed only a year and a half ago ( for a goodly chunk of money, I'm sure ), and the church is very pleased and proud of them. I agree that it is not the best design to put them there, but the church architecture dictated that placement. The remodeling of the back part of the balcony was prompted by the new windows, The former speaker shelf was going across the window openings, abut two thirds of the way up. And it was not centered.

    Anyhow....., I think I may have come up with a suitable design that I will be reasonably pleased with. Got it laid out in the shop, and need to consider it for a day or two now. I'll update this thread pretty soon with more photos and so on.

    Thanks again to all who shared their ideas so far. It really does help to hear everyone's ideas, when one is trying to do a project with less than ideal raw materials.

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  • davidecasteel
    commented on 's reply
    Are those O.D. pipes a full rank? I doubt that you will need to use a full set and you could possibly just select the upper octaves for the screen.

  • Larrytow
    replied
    Hi all, thanks for the interest and ideas so far. Just thought I would post a fast update. I spent last night / this morning ( till 5am - I really do like to work at night ! ) in the shop, staring at, picking up and putting down facade pipes, and pondering how I could possibly make something I would be satisfied enough with out of the existing set I am trying to adapt. I think I may have a decent workable plan now. More info, questions, and of course Photos !, will follow later tonight or tomorrow.

    I also found a rank of Reuter ( pretty sure that's the builder ) Open Diapason pipes near(ish) to me that will be available in the future. But when in the future is unknown at this time, because of the COVID shutdown. They are still installed in the church, and there is no access for the guy who is replacing them until things get back going. They are however scale 43, and that is actually larger than the pipes I am trying to adapt now. They do have "normal" size feet though.

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  • Leisesturm
    replied
    Originally posted by voet View Post
    Have you considered dividing the pipes on each side of the windows? That way you could use the full length of the pipes. It would, of course, require that you divide the speakers as well and build two smaller platforms.
    I like it. There is a funky bit of architecture ruining the plane of the left wall, but the speakers could be mounted inboard of that. TBH I would not have those windows there at all! A single round "Rose Window" mounted high on that back wall is what should have been designed. Then the full run of facade pipes could be centered under it. The center pipes shortened to follow the diameter of the RW. Maybe those (new?) windows can be sold? Can they even be seen? Anyway, as I read the o.p. the church are not so much attached to THIS facade as they are attached to the idea of A facade. A screen made of acoustically transparent grille cloth could cover the speakers where they are. Or your idea of divided banks of pipes (and speakers) on either side of the windows. IMO anything else violates the "first, do no harm" maxim.

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  • voet
    replied
    Have you considered dividing the pipes on each side of the windows? That way you could use the full length of the pipes. It would, of course, require that you divide the speakers as well and build two smaller platforms.

    Leave a comment:


  • myorgan
    commented on 's reply
    David,

    I think the church is (unreasonably, IMHO) tied to this façade Larry is trying to make work for them. Evidently, there's an emotional tie there somewhere.

    Michael

  • davidecasteel
    replied
    Have you considered just getting some appropriate-sized PVC pipe, fabricate some thin plastic cones for the feet, and paint them all with aluminum paint? the mouths could simply be painted in place--they only have to look "real" from a distance. This would also solve the weight problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Larrytow
    commented on 's reply
    Yup, of course I have more photos. I'll post them later today or late tonight.

  • Leisesturm
    replied
    What I would like to see is a photo of how the rear balcony looks from the POV of someone seated in the main Sanctuary. Preferably multiple views from 1st Row; Mid Sanctuary and finally rear Sanctuary. If my guess is correct, the only good view of those stained glass windows is from someone at the Pulpit looking out towards the pews. I would also like to see what the Altar area looks like from the POV of a congregant seated in a pew. We all agree that those pipes are just too large scaled to be cut down to what would fit under that eave and still look remotely authentic. Absolutely, much thinner pipes need to be located. Or ... the current facade pipes could be hung at the balcony rail, Ruckpositiv style. Bring the speakers along too of course. That balcony rail is no stranger to having speakers reside there. Or ... the pipes can occupy the left hand (from Altar POV) corner of the Balcony at 'floor level'. Bent 90* at the point where they bend already.

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  • myorgan
    commented on 's reply
    Well...they'll just look like a theatre rank of pipes rather than a classical rank of pipes.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

    Michael

  • Larrytow
    commented on 's reply
    Michael, I have not considered that option actually. The main problem with this salvage facade is that it has too many large pipes. Smaller diameters are in short supply on it. Making lots of phone calls today; starting a hunt for more suitable pipes. Wanting to use something for sentimental reasons is fine - - until it is obvious that they just won't work. That perfectionist thing you mentioned earlier can be problematic sometimes !

  • myorgan
    replied
    Stupid question, but what about two rows? Do you have enough pipes for that? The ones in the front could be set up as a W, and in back as an inverted V (think Conn Speaker Pipes center unit). That may allow you to hide some of the potential issues. Just a thought.

    Michael

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  • Larrytow
    commented on 's reply
    Yes, you have summarized the issue very succinctly ! Pipes are too fat, and the feet are too long. Still gotta lay it out with the middle fat ones out to see if that can work visually. I'll report back here after I try that. I may indeed need to go pipe shopping.

  • ChristopherDB113
    replied
    Just looking at the pipes and your pattern on the floor, you will be chopping them down a lot to fit. I think the diameter of pipes and location on the mouths, in relation to their new heights will look out of proportion, even to the average parishioner.

    Over all the concept is good, but if you had some smaller diameter pipes I think it would look better. My $0.02.

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  • Larrytow
    replied
    Of course I will be running any modifications / redesign ideas though the church folk. More accurately I guess, it would be subject to approval by the one "well to do" person who is the source of the funds for the project. A "rich" donor ( and Elder, etc. ) is paying for the entire project. But that still does not mean that he wants to pay more than required to make it happen, and still look reasonably good. It is not a "price is no object" sort of job. If it were, things would be much easier, since I could draw up what is needed and order pipes, framework, pretty much everything from any number of suppliers.

    Then there is the sentimental / history aspect of the facade pipes that I am trying to make work here. They came from another church of the same denomination, when it was basically torn down for a rebuild some years ago. The donor likes the idea of the pipes being put back into service in the same denomination, for essentially the same purpose. If not for that little issue, I would be looking for a regular 8' Diapason rank with the normal 17 zinc bass pipes, with all parts in proper proportion, to use as the raw materials.

    My current thinking is that I will try laying them out with the smallest diameter pipes just inside of a vertical line down from each of the longitudinal roof beams. With those extended feet, it is really almost impossible to cut the shortest ones to fit under them, and still look anywhere near like a semi correct foot to body ratio. It will land up being a tall, but not as wide as the shelf display, but much more proportional.

    The outside ends of the shelf are sorta reserved for additional speakers ( perhaps ? ) in the future anyhow, for the PA, Electric Piano, and so on. Since I need to build a structure to go behind the pipes at about 3' up from the shelf level for the upper pipe retainers, that could be made as wide as the shelf is, and then have decorative panels put in those outside spaces where the pipes end. The platform is 10&1/2' wide. The inside distance between the two longitudinal roof beams is 7' -7". So a display layout of just over 7 feet wide will cover the central area nicely. And it will have plenty of room for 4 larger speakers some day.

    The balcony there is pretty deep actually. It may not show in the photos well, but it is somewhere between 15' and 18' deep from the rail to the back wall. The only way to see what is behind the facade would be when coming up the stairs to the loft.

    I really need to dig out the drafting stuff and start drawing this all out to scale. I'm just going by notes and rough sketches yet. At least I know that I have all the pertinent building dimensions correct, so a scale drawing will tell what will fit where, and how it will look in proportion to everything else.

    In the next few days I will be picking up and putting down lots of pipes to try out this new idea. I've not got a whole lot going on anyhow with the shutdown in effect, and it's good exercise I suppose.

    Thank you very much for your input on this ! No matter how it lands up being laid out, discussing it in this way is really making me "get the thinking out of it" BEFORE cutting any pipes.
    Last edited by Larrytow; 03-26-2020, 10:03 PM.

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