Entry into Organ Building

[Guest]

I'm considering looking at pipe organ building as a career option, or at the very least I'd like to learn a bit about it and be able to do some stuff with whatever organ I get stuck with.  Unfortunately I have very little experience in things like carpentry and whatnot (I am strong and can move stuff, and am willing to learn of course).  I have no drafting skills.  What I basically have is a willingness to learn the trade and some experience reading books on organs and spending time with two organ techs, following them around for a bit.</P>

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One organ tech I was with suggested I send resumes to a few different companies (most notably Fisk).  I was wondering what sorts of things organ building companies are interested in on resumes?  How can I make myself more 'desirable' to hire?</P>

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At first I'd like to just do a summer internship and learn the basics, but I don't know where it'd go from there...</P>

[Guest]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



Forget the resume.You need to develop many skills like carpentry and tool usage and organ terminology - what's a diatonic pipe chest? What's a pittman chest. Get some good books like Audsley's "The Art of Organ-Building" and become familiar with the techniques and skills required. You need some electrical skills, also. Then locate some builders, learn about them and personally visit them. You need to show them how you can learn and benefit their business, not what they can do for you, especially in this economy. Organ building is not a lucrative business. Good Luck.</P>


Al</P>
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[odellorgans]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree. Anyone seeking employment in the organ industry should have some sort of basic resume put together. Don't be concerned if you don't have any relevant experience.  Organbuilders know their trade is specialized and uncommon.  </p>

Overall, don't be discouraged if early efforts don't pan out.  Shop experience is not a requisite, but it is helpful when a builder is looking for a prospective hire.</p>

SInce you come to the table admitting no experience, an organbuilder, like any other businessperson, will be looking at your resume to get a sense of what you are like as a person.  What are your work habits? Are you timely, fastidious, punctual? Are you responsible? Can you follow instruction?  What is your educational background? Do you have a consistent employment history?</p>

 If you have a good work ethic, positive attitude and some decent references, chances are you can find an entry level position somewhere.  Listings can be found in the AIO website (pipeorgan.org) and trade journals.  Also, don't be afraid to contact your local builders through their websites or calling them on the phone. If nothing else, you might get a shop tour out of it. Often positions are filled before they ever get advertised.</p>

One of my best hires was someone who had never seen the inside of an organ shop before he came to work for me. </p>

[nullogik]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



Out of interest, when looking for a candidate at your shop,is being able to play the organ a must? I only say that because I know of two very good professionalpiano tuners who can't play the piano but can tune pianos. </P>
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[odellorgans]

Re: Entry into Organ Building

[quote user="nullogik"]

Out of interest, when looking for a candidate at your shop, is being able to play the organ a must? I only say that because I know of two very good professional piano tuners who can't play the piano but can tune pianos.
</p>

[/quote]</p>

Depends on the position I am looking to fill.  Generally, I would say no, but I do like to see some sort of basic musical knowledge. An elemental understanding of the keyboard, basic scales, etc.  </p>

 Learning to become a fully trained organbuilder takes years, and goes well beyond what we do in the shop. You can get some excellent background from the various texts, but this needs to be reinforced with practical experience, as well as developing an understanding of how the organ is used in context.</p>

I frequently see musicians initially attracted to the trade, and the ones that stay on often become dedicated craftspeople. </p>

[Guest]

Re: Entry into Organ Building

What exactly would a summer intern do? How hard is it to find a firm willing to let an intern help out (or whatever they do)?

[Guest]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



I think I can offer you a little advice. I have been working for an organ builder for a little over 5 years now. I came to the trade directly out of college. I have a degree in Church Music - Organ.</p>

During my time in college I decided that I was interested in building, not just playing full time. Starting in about December of my Junior year I started looking for an organ company to work for during the following summer. Start early, don't rush things most organ builders are slow. I looked at many organ builders websites before calling them. Actually, I only contacted builders that I liked after looking at websites. I knew that I wanted to work for a builder that did mechanical action.</p>

I simply called the builders I liked and asked for the owner or president. I told them I was simply interested in the trade and wanted to work for a builder for the summer so I could decide if that's what I wanted to do as a profession. Many were interested and they asked me to send my resume and references. I already had my resume together, a few references, and a couple letters of recomendation. Nothing fancy or impressive. Just enough to show I was a responsible enough person, one letter was in regards to helping my Uncle who does handy man types of work.</p>

I actually flew from Iowa to Mass to meet with one builder, who decided it would be too much work to have me around if they weren't hiring permanently. Most just spoke with me on the phone or via e-mail for interview type questioning. I ended up working for Andover Organ in Mass for that summer. At the end of the summer they offered me a job for when I graduated. It was an awesome experience, not just be cause I was on the East coast either. I didn't always do some thing interesting, some times I just sorted screws, some times I held keys, and some times I did some real organ buiding work. I learned a lot and saw many types of organs - electric action and mechanical. If this is the trade you decided on pursuing experience with a builder is a very big plus when you go applying for a permanent job.</p>

Many builders use summer help for mundane jobs, like makeing squares, or cutting leather circles, or sweeping the floors. Always, grunt labor loading, unloading, assembling and dissasembaling organs.</p>

Don't worry about knowing any thing. I didn't know much about actually building organs, I knew basicaly how they work but that's it. I learned so much working for Andover, who was just doing rebuilds and service work. Better, in my opinion then working for a company that only builds new. Also, I was given a tour of organs in the area by guys that worked at Andover. I saw such a variety of instruments and they were always willing to tell me about the construction.</p>

So... Have a resume ready to go, with references.</p>

Find builders you want to work for, for a couple months at least.</p>

Call and talk to them. Tell them what you are looking for and see if they need/want that help. Just be honest about your knowledge and abilities.</p>

Being an organist does help, you already have some basic organ knowledge that way.</p>

Good luck! Let us know how it works for us. Always, feel free to ask more questions.</p>

G Donald H.
</p>

[odellorgans]

Re: Entry into Organ Building

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma; ">What exactly would a summer intern do? How hard is it to find a firm willing to let an intern help out (or whatever they do)?

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; "> </span></span></p>

Around here summer help usually assists in installation or removals (under careful supervision), general shop help, assisting in mill, assembly and leather work, and assisting on rare summer service calls (very little tuning is done in the summers around the Northeast unless the church has year round climate control).  This is not a true "internship", as training in organbuilding is not implicit and we only take people on as regular hourly employees (as opposed to being paid with a stipend or similar).  Overall, what one can glean as an "intern" depends very much on one's attitude.  </p>

For someone seeking to cut their teeth in an organ shop, it should be understood that skilled tradesmen, especially those who come from the European tradition, are reticent to spend time passing their hard-won skills, especially to someone who maybe gone in two or three months. Conversely, highly-skilled elder craftsmen are written off by younger folk as crusty "old-school" guys in the inevitable clash of personalities.   I'm a middle aged guy myself, and don't want to sound dour about the upcoming generation; this is just my observation and a caveat to any young person entering into the shop environment.  We have had our share of good and bad; I'm fortunate to have  found some really terrific people over the years, so I know well-mannered, responsible young  folk are out there.  </p>

To a young person, especially one with an inquisitive mind, the details we organbuilders focus on can be stultifying, and the insistence on beginning with small steps can seem frustrating. When working with young trainees, one can have a few disappointing experiences and come away saying: "kids these days have no patience for a hard-day's work!" I'm not so quick to judge, but I know I heard these laments often from the older guys in the shop back when I started over 20 years ago.  </p>

 I try to be as open minded as possible when working with young people, and employees in general, but as with anything, one must begin with good work habits.  Show up on time, be mindful of what you are told and those you work with, and show respect to your employer and your employer's clients. Don't balk at being assigned a menial task; how you react in such situations tells us much about you. Be prepared and well-rested, especially when you are doing any heavy work.</p>

Overall  If a young person displays interest, projects a sense of sincerity and modesty, shows a willingness to listen and demonstrates some facility and skill, chances of success are far greater.</p>

Good luck! </p>

[Guest]

Re: Entry into Organ Building

[quote user="al"]

Forget the resume. You need to develop many skills like carpentry and tool usage and organ terminology - what's a diatonic pipe chest? What's a pitman chest. Get some good books like Audsley's "The Art of Organ-Building" and become familiar with the techniques and skills required. You need some electrical skills, also. Then locate some builders, learn about them and personally visit them. You need to show them how you can learn and benefit their business, not what they can do for you, especially in this economy. Organ building is not a lucrative business. Good Luck.

Al 

 

[/quote]



A diatonic pipe chest is one where the bass pipes are on the outside with the smallest ones in the middle. Low C starts one side and low C sharp starts the other. A pitman chest is the most common type of electro-pneumatic chests used today. I do have an organ tuning knife given to me by a kind tech that didn't have time to tune the continuo he'd left us, so I'm familiar with tuning closed wood and open metal pipes. I have obtained a copy of Audsley's book from my local library; you wouldn't believe it but here at NMSU I have access to a sinfully large amount of organ construction books that I can check out for entire semesters without fear of anyone else taking them (I'm the only organ major...). I'll try my best to follow your advice!





"Respectfully, I am going to have to disagree. Anyone seeking employment in the organ industry should have some sort of basic resume put together. Don't be concerned if you don't have any relevant experience. Organbuilders know their trade is specialized and uncommon.  

Overall, don't be discouraged if early efforts don't pan out. Shop experience is not a requisite, but it is helpful when a builder is looking for a prospective hire.

Since you come to the table admitting no experience, an organbuilder, like any other businessperson, will be looking at your resume to get a sense of what you are like as a person. What are your work habits? Are you timely, fastidious, punctual? Are you responsible? Can you follow instruction? What is your educational background? Do you have a consistent employment history?

 If you have a good work ethic, positive attitude and some decent references, chances are you can find an entry level position somewhere. Listings can be found in the AIO website (pipeorgan.org) and trade journals. Also, don't be afraid to contact your local builders through their websites or calling them on the phone. If nothing else, you might get a shop tour out of it. Often positions are filled before they ever get advertised.

One of my best hires was someone who had never seen the inside of an organ shop before he came to work for me."



Thank you very much for your advice, Mr. Odell! I will check the website regularly and will compile a resume. Unfortunately, the nearest pipe organ builder to here is in Tuscon Arizona, but I will see if I can't contact him about it as well. The one thing that does worry me is having to move to a high-rent area and not being able to pay bills with an introductory job. Do any organizations offer scholarships or financial aid to people who wish to study organbuilding?





"I think I can offer you a little advice. I have been working for an organ builder for a little over 5 years now. I came to the trade directly out of college. I have a degree in Church Music - Organ.

During my time in college I decided that I was interested in building, not just playing full time. Starting in about December of my Junior year I started looking for an organ company to work for during the following summer. Start early, don't rush things most organ builders are slow. I looked at many organ builders websites before calling them. Actually, I only contacted builders that I liked after looking at websites. I knew that I wanted to work for a builder that did mechanical action.

etc."

Also, thank you very much for your response. It's good to know that someone similar to me has had success in this. I am doing the same thing with websites, though I'm less concerned with what type of action the builders do.  




"Around here summer help usually assists in installation or removals (under careful supervision), general shop help, assisting in mill, assembly and leather work, and assisting on rare summer service calls (very little tuning is done in the summers around the Northeast unless the church has year round climate control). This is not a true "internship", as training in organbuilding is not implicit and we only take people on as regular hourly employees (as opposed to being paid with a stipend or similar). Overall, what one can glean as an "intern" depends very much on one's attitude.  

etc."

I'm sorry, maybe internship wasn't the right word I was looking for Mr. Odell. This sounds about what I was expecting and looking forward to anyway. Mr. Grahame Davis, our organ repair man's comment was that the first thing he learned to do on the job was 'make a damn fine cup a tea'.





So from what I gather from all of this information is that you will be expected to do the menial tasks at first, you will be regularly employed and you learn a craft.



Sure beats fast food. :)



Thank you all for your help and information!

[Guest]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



Here's something to help you aspiring builders out...</P>


http://coulterorgans.com/Scholarship.html</P>


Our AGO chapter is managing a scholarship for organ builder apprentices. See details at the link provided. Good luck! </P>


P.S. In following the links, I find no specific information about the builder's scholarship. If you're interested, contact the dean of the chapter. If you get no response, let me know and I'll do what I can to find some information. This is a new fund, and may not have all the operating proceedures in place yet.</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



[quote user="Pipedreamer"]So from what I gather from all of this information is that you will be expected to do the menial tasks at first, you will be regularly employed and you learn a craft.[/quote]Well, that is the usual order. [;)]</P>


The daughter of an organbuilder once told me: as anapprentice you get really good at pushing a broom. [:)]</P>

[KleinErzahler]

Re: Entry into Organ Building



It wouldn't hurt to take some woodworking classes and get a little bit of cabinet-making/woodworking into your skill set so that you make that ability a known quantity going in.  It's not necessarily that the exact procedures translate, but that your mindset as a craftsman and attention to detail do.</p>

There is way too much crap work being done out there to this very day in the organ world.  If you can demonstrate the interest and willingness to lash that cable properly, or to clean and tin the connections before wrapping and soldering, or to make a proper cleat for a support rather than running it through with a couple deck screws and a cordless drill, you will not only be attractive to a good builder but you'll get a much better learning experience too.</p>

Maybe you could take on a small 1-rank project at home - to refurbish a decent chest, make proper ducts, wire it, all that; and we'll guide you through it.</p>

     Best, </p>

           Nathan</p>

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