Where's the choir?

[rodenstock01]

Does anyone have experience starting up a church choir from ground zero?</P>


In a moment of weakness I took anew position at a downtown church where the former, organist,who had been there for 30 years and walks on water,left and took the entire choir with him to another church just around the block.</P>


So, Ihad my first choir rehearsal last night and three elderly ladies showed up. This comes after a month or so oftrying to recruit from the pews, which included publishing my phone number in the bulletin and even going through the uncomfortable, yet pointlessexercise of calling people who left but are (supposedly) still members of the parishto come back.</P>


This would be ok, except the pastor who has been there for 13 years and just signed on for another six, wants (expects) me to have a choir. As an organist for 25 years, I've always welcomed the presence of a parish choir. I've learned to live withthe fact that it's usually, the same people who do everything else. Occassionaly, I'd pick up one of two voices if people liked the music and thought I was any good. But I've never aspired to groom a following. I'm one of those that prefers to keep a few close friends rather than collect a crowd. So, I just don't have anybody to bring in from former jobs or social networks. I keep hearing though other people, including from the pastor, how willing the organist that left is to help somehow. But, we've never met and I have tokind of dismiss this as lipservice.What would I even have to ask him except to send our people back?</P>


Some other questions: What's the recipe for forming a choir? What number of people do you need to have one? I'm thinking there can't be less than seven, (ok, maybe six if you want to fake it). What do I tell the pastor if I end up with no more than three or four? </P>


If necessary, at what point do I tell the pastor it's not going to work?</P>


A voice student thatcalled me agreed to help but she can't come on the day we have planned for rehearsal. Should I change the day to fit her schedule if any of the other three can't come? Somebody said, oh, you should reaching out to the younger people and get them involved? What does that mean? Should I be arranging sing-a-longs atscout meetings or something? Is this something new; are organists today expected to have a choir in their pocket to bring with them to a new job? What's the answer?</P>


Please let me know your suggestions Thanks. Eric</P>

[Manum de Tabula]

Re: Where's the choir?



Assuming this choir is all volunteer, here's a general suggestion:
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There is usually someone in the congregation who is the "leader of the pack". Befriend that person and after you have discovered their interests, find a way to involve them as choir president (or whatever title your church uses). Their responsibility is to recruit the choir members for you and keep the choir staffed. They can suggest a choir secretary who will handle the music and keep records of names and phone numbers, be sure everyone knows practice times, etc. You can also involve other individuals who play an instrument, depending on the style your church prefers, (praise band, Bach, contemporary, bell ringing etc.). Don't try to do it all yourself or you will either never get it started or will burn out. Ask for ideas from older church members who might remember how the previous choir got started. Also ask for ideas from the younger people to determine what they might like to do. A youth choir designed to teach basic music skills is often welcomed by parents. Perhaps the voice student you mentioned would be willing to teach the youth?
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Be patient, it won't happen overnight, and be enthusiastic especially when it looks impossible. Remember to praise their efforts (no matter how awful they sound), never single out individual mistakes, keep a sense of humor and a supply of loving smiles.
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Good luck!
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[rodenstock01]

Re: Where's the choir?



Thanks for replying so soon. The leader of the pack suggestion has already occurred to me.Ihaven't gotten any clear answers about how the choir was orginally formed. All discussion always goes back to how remarkable the other organist is....yaada, yaada.</P>


The leaders I have identified are doing double duty between the two churches; attending Scripture classes on weeknights, liturgy planning, parish councilor religious ed during the week. We have a Communion Serviceon Saturday evening which another organist does. I'll have to check with the pastor but I believe they may even beattendingon Saturday evening and thengoing around the block to theother church for choir when it's my turn to show.</P>


The youth idea is harder to grasp. We seem to have quite a few children around ages 4-12. Maybe there are some high school or college kids around but I haven't seen them. Chances are their parents are with the former choir. I would welcomekids at the college level, maybe Senior High but not any younger.No parenting or role model instinct for them. </P>


Regardless, can you offer a suggestion for what to do with the three or four people I have now? I certainly couldn't display a choir of three or four people in the sanctuary unless they were the best talent in town, could I?. Wouldn't an inaudible or invisible choiractually dissuade those who are "waiting to see" more so than no choir at all?Could this happen? Ilook forward to hearing from you. Thanks.</P>

[BOZ]

Re: Where's the choir?

If the choir members who followed the original organist across the block are still members of your church, why wouldn't they sing in your choir as well? I realize this may seem unusual, but they are already trained to sing as a group and, if you can get some to return, maybe more will follow. You could stick with their known repertoire (for starters) and then slowly introduce your own preferences. Heck, they may prefer you over the other organist, especially if you practice the water walk.

[Clarion]

Re: Where's the choir?



[:$]</P>

[Hammondlover]

Re: Where's the choir?

I would go to the church across the block [6]

[rodenstock01]

Re: Where's the choir?



Hi Boz. Now you're hitting on something. The thing is the choir is composed of people <U>from all over town</U> of which <U>some</U> are actually church members.The dirty secret (shshh....) is that it'sreally a "schola cantorum" posing as a church choir. Unfortunately, it was a moot point for everyone involved, including the pastor, until the gig was up.Of course now it's hard to ignore that the sanctuary of the church which was enlarged into the narthex, to accomodate the choir, has rows of empty seats that arepitifully empty all the time.My job, I guess,is to fill them. Any offers?</P>


Another thing is that the competingchurch around the block already had a considerablechoir. News is that theyall been assimilated as in the Borg episode of Star Trek with our missing"choir". Apparently resistance was futile. Ihad hoped against hope that the stretch between Christmas and Lent would cause a separation between the sheep and the goats. But my predecessormust be a wizard as well asa musician withability to turn goats into sheep. Or maybe they were all sheep to begin with. Certainly there can't be anygoats since everybody is and has been friendly about the whole thing i.e no one really <U>intended</U> "tobehave badly"right?</P>


So here's what I get: ...And so...oh, you're the new organist?....Very good. Where's <U>your </U>choir? Don't have one....hmmm? Well, that's not good. Thoughtof calling F.S. (your predecessor) ....oh, he's so wonderful, he donated a kidney to a complete stranger and rescued three people from a burning building......you know he's been asking about you and said that if you need anything just call him. Maybe P.B. can give you his number. Have a nice day.</P>

[davidecasteel]

Re: Where's the choir?



I'm not clear about this statement "the pastor...expects me to have a choir". I don't know if that means he expects that you, as an organist, have a choir that follows you around, or that he expects the church to have a choir, with you as director. I don't know what kind of church you are involved with, but all the churches I've been associated with had choirs composed of church members and that stayed with the church they were members of--they didn't follow a director from church to church; by the same token, choir directors/organists moved more or less freely from church to church and worked with the choirs that existed already.</P>


From my point of view, it is not the pastor who should expect you to provide the choir, but you who should expect the pastor to do so. I think the responsibility for motivating his flock to provide singers in a choir should principally fall to him, if he truly desires for there to be a choir. In this respect he has a distinct advantage, too, because he has been there a long time and knows his members, and they him; he should have some sway over their actions and aspirations. He should, from the pulpit, proclaim the need for a choir and the great opportunity for service now available, and exhort them to come forward and meet the need. In support of him, you need to provide strong, secure, and competent music to encourage folks that you will provide good guidance and leadership.</P>


Concerning size, a choir need not be large to be effective. When there are only a few, then very simple one- and two-part music is available. If they are not gifted sight-readers, then sing hymns as anthems: they have excellent theology, tunes that are well known, and are available for almost any topic. You can jazz them up with interludes and special accompaniments. I once sang with a small USAF chapel choir that never had more than a dozen singers and usually about half that. On one occasion only the director and I showed up on Sunday (and his wife, the organist). We sang "In the Garden" as a baritone-alto duet (me, a tenor, singing the alto and him singing the melody). It went very well and the congregation loved it.</P>


Concerning excellence, it is desirable but certainly not mandatory. With sufficient practice it should be possible to get a passable performance out of even a few untrained singers if the music attempted is suitable. No one expects perfection, and a good effort will be appreciated.</P>


You have not indicated whether or not there are any good singers left in your congregation, or how big it is. It seems strange that ALL the good singers in your church were part of the choir (it certainly is not true with mine, more's the pity) and then fled with your predecessor to another church. You have also not indicated what type of churches yours and the one around the corner are--if they are compatible enough for people to just willy-nilly migrate between them, why are there two? Was there a specific reason for the former organist to leave, and did the same reason exist for his singers? (Problems within your church?) There are a lot of matters to be considered here.</P>


David</P>

[rodenstock01]

Re: Where's the choir?



Hi David. Thanks for your insights and suggestions. The points you raise are quite correct except, the pastor has not left me completely in the cold. He has invited people to sing from the pulpit. Unfortunately, the are other events competingwith his message. Your questionabout the connection between the two churches is worth knowing.Both are Catholic parishes. It's known that in years to come, the one I'm in will be absorbed into the other.However, things are remaining constant at the level of leadership and direction into the distant future.</P>


Rather than go in that direction about things,any advice about the three, maybe four, peoplethathave expressed an interest. Can I start a choir off with that many?This frightens me more than not having any people at all. I'm afraid it may be an excercise in disappointment for all involved. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.</P>

[davidecasteel]

Re: Where's the choir?



There are a couple of things that must be considered for your last question. First, can those 3 or 4 people sing? I mean, can they sing fairly confidently? What voices are represented (SATB)? How do they feel about singing in front of people as such a small group? (Are they unafraid?) If music appropriate for that group size is chosen, there is no reason that effective music for the service cannot be produced by 3 or 4 singers IF they actually can sing and are willing to do it as part of a small group.</P>


Perhaps, too, if you are able to field a small group that is fairly effective, you might then attract other singers to join the nucleus you have.</P>


David</P>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Where's the choir?

I attended a choir concert this past Sunday evening where the size of the choir ranged from three to six persons (total choir was three men and three women). They were excellent in a large church and nothing was lacking. Then, of course, there are Harry Christophers and the Sixteen . . .

[Guest]

Re: Where's the choir?



It is a difficult, perhaps intractable, situation you face. My prayers are with you.</p>

In general, average people who like to sing but who do not have formal musical training or unusual experience and confidence, will not sing effectively unless there are two people to a part. There is an SAB repertory out there that is reasonably worthwhile, so if you can get four women and two men then in theory you're in business as long as they always show up. An SATB choir with three reasonably committed people to each part might be a more realistic minimum since you can still sing if one or two people are missing.
</p>

[davidecasteel]

Re: Where's the choir?



You have not said what parts the people who have shown interest sing. I believe that even 1- or 2-part music is preferable to none at all, and 3 to 4 people could certainly sing unison music. Perhaps you could start with some simple chants. There are some lovely simple arrangements of Classics, too--the choir of 9-year-olds I sang with as a child did some very nice presentations of Bach's "My Heart Ever Faithful" and "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" as a couple of examples. I'm sure there are people here who can suggest many other pieces.</P>


I think that part of a recruitment process is to have a group that people can join, so field some kind of group as soon as you can get something that is acceptable ready. Have someone listen in at the Sunday School classes to find people who sing strongly and work on them a little. It's amazing what a little honest flattery can do.</P>


David</P>

[davet753]

Re: Where's the choir?



My experience is this: If you can get 5 or 6 people together that will commit themselves to the choir, then you should go ahead and do it. Once started, if the clergy and congregation will give the effort their support, then it will slowly start to grow. </P>


Remember: You have to start somewhere. </P>

[chrisemtpa]

Re: Where's the choir?

I would just like to say that Choirs need not be 100 people big, our Choir at Church is 8 people, 4 Sopranos, 2 Altos, 2 Tenor/Bass. This number can change from 8 to 3 and we still manage to sing and sing well. On Sundays when it is a small group we sing from a hymnal, usually a more contemporary piece. When the whole Choir is there it is always SATB or SAB music. As matter of fact when I first sang on the Choir 13 years ago there were 6 of us and we werenamed in the paper as a small but mighty Choir worth hearing. This was when we sang at the dedication of the new methodist church in town. Incidently we are a UCC congregation.