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Why are lovely and amazing used organs suddenly going begging for takers?

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    #16
    Originally posted by musikfan View Post
    I would have to agree heartily with many of the comments that y'all have posted here. Church organists are becoming a dying breed of musician, I think. I've been saying this now for the past 10 years, but I think its only been in the past three to five years that I'm REALLY seeing this become reality for so many of us who love it. The old Lutheran church across the street from my house is all but finished (20 people attending). I was the last organist to play in a service. I had to stop at the end of August 2015 (due my commitment to play organ in my own church) and the organ has not been touched since then. They had to hire a pianist. My home church of 24 years always had an organist every Sunday, and now they are lucky to have it played once every five to six weeks according to my parents who still attend there. I'm glad that my own church still uses it every week. I think that the church has morphed in many ways, and the continued presence of "praise and worship" music has kicked out so many of the traditional hymns. In many people's minds, no hymns=no need for an organ. I do not necessarily agree with this.
    It may be a bit different in the big cities. A lot of my friends in the Philly AGO have retired from playing. I did, too, but a church position came up that I couldn't refuse (certainly not because of the $), so I'm back in the saddle. Others could follow suit IF a worthwhile position came up... Then there are those organists that got, or felt they got, "burned" in a church position, so they pulled out of church work- quite a few of them in my area. So, there are folks available who could be a church organist (again) if they wished to.
    But then there are the churches who seem not to be worthy- we read in the Forum about a certain church that paid $150K for a rebuild of their pipe organ, but couldn't get an organist when the incumbent went elsewhere (for a higher salary). IIRC, the poster mentioned that they declined to offer a worthwhile salary... go figure! And don't even ASK me about the magnificent local church with the Aeolian-Skinner whose rector (with an MBA) ditched the organ (for piano) because "85% of would-be churchgoers despise organ music" according to surveys he's seen. So sad.
    R, Bill Miller

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by indianajo View Post
      One stupid speaker the schober console and the bench pretty much filled up the 10' U-haul van, with the dollies & ramps necessary to load it. $.85 a mile instead of $.60. to rent the truck with the built in ramp. It was $200 just to go 80 miles one way.
      What are you doing with the Schober Recital Model? Gutting it to use the console and pedals, or using it as original?

      David

      Comment


        #18
        '
        Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
        To answer a question, the "S" at the end of the MDS-80-S refers to "sub and super couplers" being available on the instrument. That is what the "S" always means in MDS models. I'm not sure just how many of the MDS models were offered in an "S" version, but I see on the tech site that several of them are so listed.

        Because of polyphony limits, Allen digitals normally didn't have sub and super couplers. So, in the MDS era, Allen devised a work-around and started offering these "S" versions of some of their models. These models would have both 4' and 16' intra-manual couplers on the swell, and the swell could also be coupled to the great and/or pedal at these pitches.

        The way it worked, there were in fact duplicate copies of most of the swell stops residing on extra tone generator boards in the cage, but these duplicates were pitched an octave above and below the unison stops. So, drawing the sub or super coupler or both would actually bring in additional stops from the extra tone generator boards. Not every stop in the stoplist would have duplicates, so some would not respond to the sub and super couplers (notably the 16' stops and the very high pitched stops). It also should be noted that the duplicate ranks would not necessarily be as "good" as the unison ranks, as they might be relegated to a board that carried more stops or they might use a simpler sample without the detailed attacks or wind of the unison stop.

        But this was an interesting way to provide these sub and super couplers that other builders, such as Rodgers, had always had, at least in their larger organs. I'm sure there are technical reasons having to do with the way their tone generators work, why Rodgers could do this with their system and Allen could not without going to the extra trouble of having more boards.

        Why was the sub/super feature an option and not standard? Well, it obviously required a lot more resources be used for the swell division (other divisions were not normally equipped with these couplers). That cost money of course. And the models without the sub/super feature could have "second voices" residing on the boards that were otherwise occupied by the couplers. Our MDS-45 at church is an example of that. No sub/supers, but both swell and great have second voice knobs which convert a number of the stops into alternative stops. On the swell, these alternates are orchestra tones, and on the great they are percussion stops such as chimes, handbells, chrysoglott, harpsichord, etc.
        I wondered if the "S" meant a floating string division. The polyphony issue with Allen is a real puzzler. As processor power has increased, so has polyphony. It's getting typical for high end digital synthesizers to have 128 or even 256 note polyphony (or voice channels). If you take 10 fingers, and multiply by 3, (for sub, unison, and super), then one board offering 256 notes of polyphony could give 8 stops with super and sub couplers for the manuals. It shouldn't be very difficult for any organ to have super and subs.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by davidecasteel View Post
          What are you doing with the Schober Recital Model? Gutting it to use the console and pedals, or using it as original?
          David
          I'm trying out the original Shober circuits, but there is no reason not to add DC voltage and drive a midi encoder too. The main goal is to have an AGO compliant organ to practice on at home, so if invited to play in a church again, I don't have to utter the deadly confession "I'd have to practice". I'm still banned from using the Rodgers organ in my church, that is dedicated to the use of holders of the master's in music performance degree.
          The schober power supply has been re-e-capped and redesigned to eliminate unreliable germanium semiconductors,(28 vdc instead of 18 was coming out) the power amp re-e-capped, the bent pedal switches repaired. I am stumped by the squealing of the D# oscillator at this point. I developed a hanger to put the board out in the air to access both sides, then stopped to work on another amp for playing LP's. That amp requires major redesign as the schematic diagram I followed has major flaws. The Shober 30W amp has gained my respect as a new holder of the title "world's stupidest amp", all except for the fact that after 46 years it still works with original semiconductorss, IMHO. Rattling defrost fan & all.
          city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

          Comment


            #20
            As to Allen polyphony, I am pretty sure the old 12-key limitation was discarded long ago, but it was a necessary evil in the first two decades of the digital organ. This was due to the extremely high cost of the programmable digital oscillators that were the basis of MOS design, and carried over with fairly minor upgrading into the ADC and MDS instruments. Even though computers were getting faster and cheaper each year, the hardware was still costly enough that Allen felt it necessary to conserve resources with the 12-key limit. Rodgers PDI organs didn't a hard limit built in, but I think we all know that the PDI system did indeed suffer from overload when it tried to render too many notes with too many stops, and dropped notes could sometimes be detected.

            Renaissance technology changed the entire paradigm of digital tone generation for Allen, and all current organs work in a manner more akin to the Hauptwerk concept -- basically playing back real samples, not just single waves. Of course Allen's samples are certainly not said to be the kind of "long" samples used by Hauptwerk, nor do they have a unique sample for each note of each rank, but the rendering concept is more like modern samplers than the MOS, ADC, and MDS tone generators.

            So it seems odd to us nowadays that Allen had to work with that 12-note limit, in spite of the hardships that presented to the organ designer. But it was just a fact of life back then, and the MDS "S" models represented the first real attempt to get past it.
            John
            ----------
            Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
            Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
            Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
            Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by beel m View Post
              It may be a bit different in the big cities. A lot of my friends in the Philly AGO have retired from playing. I did, too, but a church position came up that I couldn't refuse (certainly not because of the $), so I'm back in the saddle. Others could follow suit IF a worthwhile position came up... Then there are those organists that got, or felt they got, "burned" in a church position, so they pulled out of church work- quite a few of them in my area. So, there are folks available who could be a church organist (again) if they wished to.
              But then there are the churches who seem not to be worthy- we read in the Forum about a certain church that paid $150K for a rebuild of their pipe organ, but couldn't get an organist when the incumbent went elsewhere (for a higher salary). IIRC, the poster mentioned that they declined to offer a worthwhile salary... go figure! And don't even ASK me about the magnificent local church with the Aeolian-Skinner whose rector (with an MBA) ditched the organ (for piano) because "85% of would-be churchgoers despise organ music" according to surveys he's seen. So sad.
              R, Bill Miller

              Ouch!! That's REALLY sad! It's almost like killing a person. So many folks do not appreciate what goes into the creation of these instruments. Nothing moves me more than when I am sitting at the bench of a large pipe organ and playing hymns. Gives me chills every time....even after more than 30 years of playing. ...and then someone comes along and dismantles the whole thing and it ends up in a heap somewhere or else gets re-distributed into an antique shop where the pipes are sold individually for decoration (not that I don't enjoy having these for show...).

              Don't you wish you had the room to take these instruments? My ultimate dream would be to have a pipe organ in my house...not sure how I'd pull it off, although I remember reading somewhere about someone that used their basement and ran the 16' pipes horizontally.

              - - - Updated - - -

              I forgot to mention in my last reply...I played in a Baptist church for many years and made almost nothing monetarily. I'm always glad for remuneration, but I'm a purist and I just love playing for the sake of playing. Nothing makes me feel more satisfied than when I'm sitting at the bench and doing what I love to do - pay or no pay. I suppose I was never "burned" simply because I had no expectations of salary.
              Craig

              Hammond L143 with Leslie 760

              Comment


                #22
                Well, reading through this thread...it appears people have done a fairly adequate job answering jbird's question. But the opportunity arises to remind everyone that: things are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. That is the Occam's razor of markets. And the reason nobody is buying that MDS-80S for $40K is that it isn't worth anywhere near that much. We can't be privy to what dealers manage to get for used MDS organs with intangible value-added trinkets like "1 year warranty" or "allen pre-owned certification" but a reminder that the most an MDS organ ever got on ebay - a truly open market - was a mere 12K. And that was before the recession in early 2008, for a huge 3 manual organ with something like 12 speakers...it was probably the largest 3 manual model. The most any used Allen fetched was the low twenties for a custom Quantum organ...was it 3 or 4 manuals I can't remember...that was surely at least 100K new. And it was only a few years old! CLEARLY even under the best of circumstances, used digital organs don't hold their value well. And for all the reasons people have posted here, we will never again be back to the "best" of circumstances in anything related to high culture or classical music. And as I pointed out before, neither do used pipe organs hold their value well, in the incredibly unlikely event one came up for sale relatively soon after being made. In fact if one thinks of the "set of all things" in a consumerist society, few have a strong resale value. Including, or even especially, commercial, industrial or institutional items that were originally very expensive when new...e.g., http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2011-Tra...-/161143695935 Those guys have "over 20 quality used AHUs in stock" because it's hard to get a price anywhere near reflective of what they originally cost or "what they are worth". What school system is going to hunt around for a used AHU for their new school building?
                As to the question of 12 note polyphony limit...the marketingmight also explain why they could get larger specifications out of fewer boards: big 3 manual organs no longer needed a full cage but rather a mini-cage as had been the case with MADC. When you're making a lot of them, the big cages and pcbs probably got expensive. If you can push more data over fewer wires of a backplane, you can simply use 1/2 of the bandwidth to access one set of samples on a given TG board, and 1/2 of it to access another. Therefore you need 1 TG board instead of 2, or even instead of 4.

                "programmable digital oscillators that were the basis of MOS design" - jbird
                We'll see if Don agrees with me or not but I think this somewhat overstates the case. Sounds far too advanced. The MOS and ADC systems were 100% discrete logic. They weren't "programmed"...the circuit traces and ICs performed the function of a program. That's why you can't "flash" an ADC organ to upgrade the "oscillators" to 16 note polyphony. And I'm not even sure the term oscillators wouldn't raise a few hackles. That implies a modelling of a specific kind of analog circuitry. MOS, ADC, and even MDS organs playback a waveform. Yes, it's pitifully short...but it is sample playback. Through the decades it got longer of course. But you could take that list of PCM values from any system...which is what a sample is...and with minor modification load it into any contemporary sample player like Kontakt. You're just looping over just one cycle for MOS and most of ADC, not a longer time period. So yes this is oscillating in a sense, when it goes to a DAC and "becomes sound", but I don't think circuit designers actually call that an oscillator.
                Last edited by circa1949; 02-21-2016, 05:44 AM.

                Comment


                  #23
                  There was a Baptist church here that was not lacking for money. The large sanctuary had a time delay on the overhead PA speakers the father away from the podium you sat. Rodgers almost gave them their largest model organ just to get one in southern Arizona. I don't know what model it was and it's been at least 15 years ago. This of course made the Allen dealer happy. Shortly thereafter the church moved to a new campus with an even larger sanctuary. When I was there to repair a digital piano I asked about the organ. I was told it was in a closet and had never been installed at the new location.
                  Praise band strikes again.

                  td

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by beel m View Post
                    ...And don't even ASK me about the magnificent local church with the Aeolian-Skinner whose rector (with an MBA) ditched the organ (for piano) because "85% of would-be churchgoers despise organ music" according to surveys he's seen. So sad.
                    Bill,

                    You hit the nail on the head, though. Rather than doing his own survey of his own congregants, the rector was satisfied to rely on a survey done which stated the above regarding organ music. Herein lies the issue.

                    People are satisfied to take the easy way out instead of doing their own research. Then when asked, church members reminisce about the "good old days," and fail to understand why the changes were made to begin with. Not only the rector, but also the church members are satisfied to attend once or twice a week, take what someone else gives, and are satisfied with what little drivel they are given. Why has church descended into a spectator sport vs. demanding quality from those who are responsible for delivering, for lack of a better phrase, "soul food?" Today, people come in, are entertained, and leave just as hungry as when they entered, and wonder why. Perhaps it's time for them to "belly up to the bar," serve their own plates, and expend the energy it takes to make sure they are Spiritually fed from week to week?

                    One of my churches is in the throes of this right now, and is teetering on the precipice of closing for good, vs. actually being asked to do something and grow from the experience. Sadly, I'm afraid I know which way it is going to go, unless the members get the initiative to get motivated to do something besides warm the pew from week to week. They don't know it yet, but their pastor will be resigning very soon, and 2-3 families who do the work are already in the process of leaving for other churches who are actually doing something. The pastor told me the people really do give a lot of money, but he fails to realize they're paying for their entertainment from Sunday to Sunday. Then, they'll wonder what happened, and try to find someone else to entertain them. The process really needs to stop. If that means closing the church, so be it.

                    Sorry for the "rant," but it is really sad to see people bemoaning what "could be," on the altar of what they, themselves have created based on their own inaction (not necessarily people of this Forum). Churches and services are a participatory activity rather than a spectator sport. The sooner we get that message, the better off we'll be.

                    Michael
                    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

                    Comment


                      #25
                      To add to circa's explanation of why the resale value of organs is so much less than the original cost ... Always keep in mind that a VERY large part of what a church pays to the dealer when having a new organ installed does NOT go for the "organ" as such. The "hardware" itself -- the console, bench, pedals, external electronics, cabling, and speakers -- may in fact represent only around half the money you plunk down, even though that will NOT normally be spelled out in the contract.

                      The rest of the money you pay is for the "services" you receive as the purchaser -- shipping from the factory, delivery from the store to the church, uncrating and testing, routing and pulling in sometimes thousands of feet of wire, frequently (with large organs) extensive setup of external cabinets, racks, etc., which sometimes includes bringing in carpenters or cabinet makers to create custom spaces for this equipment. There there is the placement of speakers in chambers, or in some cases mounting them on walls or suspending from ceilings, connecting everything together and going over it all until everything works.

                      Finally, there is the sometimes lengthy process of voicing or finishing, in which a truly competent and thorough voicer may invest days and days of time, "customizing" the sound specifically for the space in which it is to be played. To top it all off, the purchaser also receives a good deal of "after the sale" service -- training and followup visits, a warranty that might be 10 years, which the DEALER is going to provide labor for, not the factory. And the dealer must pay his sales people who handled the deal, and then pay his own overhead from the profit that remains.

                      So, if your church just paid $150K for a nice big Allen or Rodgers or whatever, you can be sure that nobody in their right mind would give you even half that much money for it just one week later! Because all the "services" you received, which represent half the cost, are now completely "used up" (except for the warranty, if it is transferrable), and the "hardware" is now "used" because it is no longer factory fresh and in the crate.

                      This also explains why there is a huge difference between buying a "pig in a poke" organ off ebay from a recycler/flipper who will give you absolutely NONE of these after-sale services, and buying a fully refurbished and warranted organ from a dealer (or from a shop like mine, where we provide exactly the same level of customer service as an actual dealership when we sell a large used organ).

                      The pipe organ market is very similar. Obviously, the true cost of a few thousand lengths of pipe, a pretty console with some fancy parts inside, quite a bit of wire, a big air blower and some other air-handling equipment -- the raw cost of all this stuff added together is NOT a million dollars, not anywhere near that! When you buy a pipe organ you are buying, as with the digital, a huge amount of "service" -- even more so that with the digital, because the organ will obviously take weeks to set up and voice in the church, and NONE of that service can be "re-sold" or "bought back" if the church decides to get rid of the organ.
                      John
                      ----------
                      Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
                      Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
                      Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
                      Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Hi all,

                        John makes a good case for why digital organs should cost a reasonable amount, especially if a dealer/technician/installer is involved.

                        An electronic organ for the last 25 years or so, can be said to be a console housing a computer, and having an audio system attached to it. We all know how little value a 10 year old computer has, let alone a 20 year old one. So the technology does not hold value. The only thing worth anything in an organ that is say 10 or more years old is the console, if re-used to build a virtual type organ. Most organ speakers are worth very little if more than 10 years old, and if more than 20 years old, likely are falling apart.

                        The value of getting a good used church organ, is as John says in having professionals involved. Many hours can be spent taking down an install, moving the organ and refurbishing if need be, re-installing, setup, voicing, running new cables, warranty, etc. That is why so many of these bigger ones one sees for sale, sell for so little. The added costs will add a significant amount to the selling price.

                        Lat year, I took an organ out I installed in a church, an 8 hour drive north of Toronto. I spent a day, taking down speakers, cabling, etc. This instrument dates back to 1986, pre MIDI, analog. I more than decent sounding instrument for the time. The organ did not cost me anything, other than the pick-up costs. I found that the organ was fully functional, had 1 bad speaker driver, needed re-foamed 15" woofers, new battery, a couple of potentiometers, etc. I had a church that was more than interested.
                        They came and saw the organ, wanted it as soon as I played it. The major cost was in the moving it, taking down the previous instrument, re-installing it, putting in 150' of mult conductor cable voicing it 2 year warranty. I made some money on the deal/job, but didn't get rich by any means. The church paid basically for the services I rendered, rather than the physical parts of the organ. My charge was way higher than what one sees as advertised pricing, but they considered all that was involved, and were happy to pay the costs, and so far are very happy with what they got.

                        Typically, the smaller digital organs, at least up here, sell more easily than large ones. The better Rodgers and Allens typically go from about $3K to $7K, depending on age, condition and desireability. Also, the buyer moves the organ themselves.

                        But there are relatively few organ that come up for sale, and even then they do not move quickly.

                        Basically, the market is chronically slow here, for both new and used organs. And that in turn reduces prices as well.

                        Maybe some day things will turn around, but I don't see it here.

                        AV

                        Comment


                          #27
                          When it comes down to cost for moving the instrument, one must take into account the distance from seller to purchaser also. As an example, the Allen MDS-80S out in Cali, with just the moving costs added (to bring to Michigan), could probably easily add another $5k or more. Then there is the dealer fee for having whomever do the setup...
                          Allen MOS 1105 (1982)
                          Allen ADC 5000 (1985) w/ MDS Expander II (drawer unit)
                          Henry Reinich Pipe 2m/29ranks (1908)

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Yes indeed. So you can see how a "free" organ or even a "bargain" where you get 20-year-old Allen at 1/10 of the original selling price can turn out to cost you quite a bit more when it's all said and done. Dealers are accustomed to providing all these extras (at least they SHOULD be!) and their retail prices normally include allowances for these items, but used organs from dealers may or may not get the kind of deluxe setup the dealer gives his new organ sales.

                            We who are lower on the food chain are the ones who can benefit from the current situation, as really nice organs become available for very little money. But there is a BIG caveat ... If you buy or accept as a gift a large church organ from the original purchaser, you are undertaking all the associated costs spelled out above. Don't expect all this service to come super cheap. Of course some of our forum members have done very well -- going after organs, hauling them home, making their own repairs, doing their own installations, voicing, etc. And that is commendable. And I don't begrudge any of the free advice and long-distance help that I've given out in that regard.

                            But my little shop and others like us could not stay in business if we didn't make our normal wages plus a little profit when we do a turn-key installation of a used church organ. Sometimes I can make more money on the second time around than I did when I originally sold and installed the same organ 30 years ago when I was on the staff of the local Allen dealership. That has happened several times in recent years, when I was able to pick up for free or nearly free a nice Allen that I sold in the mid-80's for, let's say, $30K. I can turn it around and sell it today for $10K if not more. The buyer gets a super nice organ in virtually mint condition, carefully installed and voiced, and with a warranty, for a fraction of the cost of a new organ with similar specs and features. I make enough money on one transaction to keep the shop open another month or two. Win-win.
                            John
                            ----------
                            Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
                            Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
                            Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
                            Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by beel m View Post
                              I feel just as you do, John. So much talk about the decline in use of church organs, and in the number of organists- I certainly can't add anything to that.
                              It would be nice to think that both these organs you spoke of are on the market because the church got a newer digital, or a pipe organ, but likely not. Things are SO different from 1970 when I started as a church organist, and 1973 when I started in the organ business...
                              For a glimmer of hope, as I write I'm downloading Allen's new Youtube vid ("Church Organ Basics") which has something to do with pianists learning to play church organ. Dare I hope that this- church pianists switching to organ- will help keep alive the centuries-old tradition of organ music in churches?
                              Pax, Bill
                              Two churches near me are getting rid of theirs, and it doesn't sound like they are getting new ones. I wish I could afford the Rodgers. https://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/5471581157.html
                              https://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/5464952289.html
                              Allen 530A

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Yep. Sad. BTW, that Rodgers 805C is a nice organ, only about 20 years old, but certainly not worth anywhere near $9000 as-is-where-is. If I, as a professional organ rebuilder/reseller, had that organ in my shop, and after I renovated it and brought it up to original specs, and probably put new speakers with it, as the old ones would have severe foam rot by now -- after all this, and including delivery and setup, voicing with the Rodgers voicing machine, and with a warranty, I would be lucky to get that much for it. Probably would settle for much less. So somebody's dreaming. They'll be lucky to get $1000 for it as-is-where-is.

                                And that Allen for $1000 is iffy. It's a MOS organ (a 200 series in the optional "B" console), and it has no speakers in the console, so there needs to be a pair (at least) of HC-12 speaker cabinets, but they are not mentioned here. Also, the cryptic note about the "wiring to the wall" needing work. Probably just needs a new power cord, but could mean that it was uncermoniously cut loose from wherever it was installed, and therefore the speakers were left behind. The amps could even have been damaged by a careless person cutting the wires with the power on.

                                Such a shame in both cases. These are instruments that could be making lovely music, thrilling joyous worshipers, leading congregations in singing the great hymns of the faith. Instead, I know some folks who are staring blankly into space listening to some rank amateur rock band plunk out some of the most boring "music" ever made.
                                John
                                ----------
                                Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
                                Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
                                Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
                                Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
                                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                                Comment

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