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Why are lovely and amazing used organs suddenly going begging for takers?

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    #46
    Originally posted by don60 View Post
    And therein lies my main complaint with FF. He is a professing Christian and the music director for a Christian church. His public image is tied as much to these features as to his shady eBay and Craigslist practices. Something is wrong with this disconnect. Either a church organ dealer is known for being a decent, ethical sort or he is known for having the morals of a common thug. It is not possible to separate the two aspects of his life convincingly for knowledgeable potential customers.
    We just had a sermon about that this AM (1 Cor. 5:11). I believe the word can be translated, extortioner, or swindler. If a person professes to be a Christian and practices such things we're not to associate with him, or to eat with them.

    Good points, Don.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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      #47
      It would probably be bad for my eBay rating, but i'm so tempted to make an offer of $12,000 on that organ. I actually am a little kicking myself right now because I could've picked that up from the original seller and found a good home for it in a church for what I paid for plus a small fee for my time and effort. And not this extortionist nonsense.

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        #48
        Originally posted by myorgan View Post
        Worked on me!

        Have the alternatives for those initials escaped everyone.

        Michael
        FF: Florida Flipper/Florida Friend

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          #49
          On the other hand, he has a 4 manual Johannus that seems more reasonably priced.
          http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...l-Organ-w-MIDI
          -Admin

          Allen 965
          Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
          Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
          Hauptwerk 4.2

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            #50
            The Johannus picture shown is not the one described in the Ebay ad

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Admin View Post
              On the other hand, he has a 4 manual Johannus that seems more reasonably priced.
              http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...l-Organ-w-MIDI
              Originally posted by mrdc2000 View Post
              The Johannus picture shown is not the one described in the Ebay ad
              There was a 4900 Platinum Edition advertised in Bloomington, IN on Craigslist a month ago for $19000. Could it be this one?

              1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
              Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

              Comment


                #52
                Yes, that seems to be more like the one described. the Ebay picture is of a newer Rembrant 497.
                Both of those organs by far outperform any other make and model in that price range. My opinion only ☺

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                  #53
                  Isn't that the same guy that had an MDS-65 listed for something like $40k three years ago?
                  Allen MOS 1105 (1982)
                  Allen ADC 5000 (1985) w/ MDS Expander II (drawer unit)
                  Henry Reinich Pipe 2m/29ranks (1908)

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                    #54
                    If you are talking about the FF, he has many organs for sale continually, usually on Ebay and he buys them from wherever he can find them.
                    The used organ business seems to be alive and well, anything from a hundred to many many thousands of $$$.
                    My question could be: If the flipper can sell them at exhorbiant prices, why can't dealers or private folk sell them for less than ff, before he gets them?
                    Last edited by mrdc2000; 04-11-2016, 12:13 PM.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by mrdc2000 View Post
                      If you are talking about the FF, he has many organs for sale continually, usually on Ebay and he buys them from wherever he can find them.
                      The used organ business seems to be alive and well, anything from a hundred to many many thousands of $$$.
                      My question could be: If the flipper can sell them at exhorbiant prices, why can't dealers or private folk sell them for less than ff, before he gets them?
                      I don't believe he actually expects and gets the advertised price, but rather negotiates something less. Whatever price he gets, I see no reason that anyone else could not do the same provided that they were patient and willing to take the risk of tying up capital for an unknown future profit or loss on their investment.

                      That is why I do not share the moral outrage others express regarding his prices. He's taking a risk tying up his money in old organs. Since it's his risk and his money, I'm not going pass moral judgement on his pricing. If you think there's a business opportunity in selling old organs on eBay and you think you can do it for less and save the organ world, what are you waiting for?
                      -Admin

                      Allen 965
                      Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                      Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                      Hauptwerk 4.2

                      Comment


                        #56
                        There is no moral outrage on my part either. This is what business is all about, if you have money, put it out to good use and make more from that investment. If you don't have any money, work more or harder and save some of the excess. Eventually you will be able to compete with FF.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          My personal distaste for the guy comes from a couple of places. First, personal experience, since I actually bought one of his organs a couple years ago. It was not "ready to play" and could not have been checked out by any competent tech, as it needed immediate renovation of the pedalboard, had a bad amp module, had more than one stop tab that did not work, and was incredibly filthy inside and out. But I managed to fix the problems and clean it up nicely, and it sits today in my living room and plays beautifully. So I was only slightly inconvenienced. And I do give him credit for having what I wanted, for a courteous and timely delivery, and a no-hassle transaction.

                          I guess I'm more just peeved at him for grabbing up good organs that are being offered at really low prices, when some of these at least could have gone to small churches or to organists for home instruments. He then re-lists them at greatly inflated prices, making them seem inaccessible to the very small churches and individuals who ought to be getting them.

                          Yes, many times the organs he snaps up have been advertised for a while without selling, so maybe you can't blame him for it, and maybe the sellers were ready to get them gone. But in at least a few cases, he has swooped in and picked one up very quickly, especially when it's a particularly good organ and a particularly low price. That just seems a bit unkind.

                          Even though he surely never gets anywhere near the exorbitant prices he asks, it still seems wrong that he is making money off these organs when he in fact adds nothing of value. Sometimes he may not even actually pick the organ up from the original owner until he sells it. And he certainly isn't doing much fixing or servicing, nor installing or voicing any organs. So that's kinda why I have an issue with him, even though perhaps moral outrage isn't truly justified.
                          John
                          ----------
                          Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
                          Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
                          Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
                          Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
                          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
                            My personal distaste for the guy comes from a couple of places. First, personal experience, since I actually bought one of his organs a couple years ago. It was not "ready to play" and could not have been checked out by any competent tech, as it needed immediate renovation of the pedalboard, had a bad amp module, had more than one stop tab that did not work, and was incredibly filthy inside and out. But I managed to fix the problems and clean it up nicely, and it sits today in my living room and plays beautifully.
                            I'm curious as to whether you complained to him about the condition of the organ and what his response was.

                            Yes, many times the organs he snaps up have been advertised for a while without selling, so maybe you can't blame him for it, and maybe the sellers were ready to get them gone. But in at least a few cases, he has swooped in and picked one up very quickly, especially when it's a particularly good organ and a particularly low price. That just seems a bit unkind.
                            So if it's a bargain, he shouldn't buy it until he's sure no one else will?

                            Even though he surely never gets anywhere near the exorbitant prices he asks, it still seems wrong that he is making money off these organs when he in fact adds nothing of value.
                            I see a value in the fact that many of his instruments would probably have wound up in the dump if he hadn't purchased them. Perhaps that balances out him snapping up the desirable bargains to some extent.
                            -Admin

                            Allen 965
                            Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                            Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                            Hauptwerk 4.2

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Well, I didn't see how any good would come of my complaining to him that my organ wasn't as described. He'd already come off the price and had at least arranged a very courteous delivery. I honestly wasn't surprised to discover that it wasn't perfect, and I was fully prepared to do whatever it took to make it work. Guess I'm not very good at complaining (except here!)...

                              As to the other issue, well of course he has as much right as anyone to buy an organ that's being offered for sale. It just seems like he's trying to "corner the market" on used organs. A time or two he's snapped up something that I would've bought if I'd had just a few more days to gather the funds, so perhaps I'm a little jealous

                              If nobody at all were looking for such organs, and they were about to go to the landfill, I guess it wouldn't matter that he buys them up. But we regularly have folks on this forum looking for a good organ at an affordable price, and it seems that just about every time something comes up on ebay that is really desirable and affordable it's not long before he's bought it and re-listed it.

                              One positive side effect of his activity -- maintaining the perception that older organs still have considerable retail value. I should be grateful to him for that. When I have a chance to show one of our refurbished organs to a prospect, it's helpful to refer them to ebay and say "similar organs are being offered on ebay for $25K and we're only asking $5K" and that will be the honest truth!
                              John
                              ----------
                              Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
                              Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
                              Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
                              Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Ah Indy, I got an ADC 5000 plus bench, pedal board and 12 Allen speakers in the 6X12 uhaul last month. I even also had a Model 45 Steinway piano and bench tucked in there.

                                - - - Updated - - -

                                John,

                                Just do what the Flipper does. Make an offer to purchase the organ and then withhold payment until you have secured funds from whomever you intend to sell it to! Ha. Ha. I know that's how he works, because I bought an Allen out from underneath him when his overnight payment hadn't reached the seller in four days, but the sellers organ photos were already on eBay with the Florida Flippers contact details.

                                But heck John, if ya see one of those great deals over here in the Midwest, let me know and I'll snap it right up. Retreiving that ADC5000 was a 900 mile road trip. And my trailer's empty just now! Smile.

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