Ebay Classic organs

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Why are lovely and amazing used organs suddenly going begging for takers?

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  • mrdc2000
    replied
    There is no moral outrage on my part either. This is what business is all about, if you have money, put it out to good use and make more from that investment. If you don't have any money, work more or harder and save some of the excess. Eventually you will be able to compete with FF.

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  • Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by mrdc2000 View Post
    If you are talking about the FF, he has many organs for sale continually, usually on Ebay and he buys them from wherever he can find them.
    The used organ business seems to be alive and well, anything from a hundred to many many thousands of $$$.
    My question could be: If the flipper can sell them at exhorbiant prices, why can't dealers or private folk sell them for less than ff, before he gets them?
    I don't believe he actually expects and gets the advertised price, but rather negotiates something less. Whatever price he gets, I see no reason that anyone else could not do the same provided that they were patient and willing to take the risk of tying up capital for an unknown future profit or loss on their investment.

    That is why I do not share the moral outrage others express regarding his prices. He's taking a risk tying up his money in old organs. Since it's his risk and his money, I'm not going pass moral judgement on his pricing. If you think there's a business opportunity in selling old organs on eBay and you think you can do it for less and save the organ world, what are you waiting for?

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  • mrdc2000
    replied
    If you are talking about the FF, he has many organs for sale continually, usually on Ebay and he buys them from wherever he can find them.
    The used organ business seems to be alive and well, anything from a hundred to many many thousands of $$$.
    My question could be: If the flipper can sell them at exhorbiant prices, why can't dealers or private folk sell them for less than ff, before he gets them?
    Last edited by mrdc2000; 04-11-2016, 12:13 PM.

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  • organman95
    replied
    Isn't that the same guy that had an MDS-65 listed for something like $40k three years ago?

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  • mrdc2000
    replied
    Yes, that seems to be more like the one described. the Ebay picture is of a newer Rembrant 497.
    Both of those organs by far outperform any other make and model in that price range. My opinion only ☺

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  • nullogik
    replied
    Originally posted by Admin View Post
    On the other hand, he has a 4 manual Johannus that seems more reasonably priced.
    http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...l-Organ-w-MIDI
    Originally posted by mrdc2000 View Post
    The Johannus picture shown is not the one described in the Ebay ad
    There was a 4900 Platinum Edition advertised in Bloomington, IN on Craigslist a month ago for $19000. Could it be this one?

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  • mrdc2000
    replied
    The Johannus picture shown is not the one described in the Ebay ad

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  • Admin
    replied
    On the other hand, he has a 4 manual Johannus that seems more reasonably priced.
    http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...l-Organ-w-MIDI

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  • toodles
    replied
    Originally posted by myorgan View Post
    Worked on me!

    Have the alternatives for those initials escaped everyone.

    Michael
    FF: Florida Flipper/Florida Friend

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  • michaelhoddy
    replied
    It would probably be bad for my eBay rating, but i'm so tempted to make an offer of $12,000 on that organ. I actually am a little kicking myself right now because I could've picked that up from the original seller and found a good home for it in a church for what I paid for plus a small fee for my time and effort. And not this extortionist nonsense.

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  • myorgan
    replied
    Originally posted by don60 View Post
    And therein lies my main complaint with FF. He is a professing Christian and the music director for a Christian church. His public image is tied as much to these features as to his shady eBay and Craigslist practices. Something is wrong with this disconnect. Either a church organ dealer is known for being a decent, ethical sort or he is known for having the morals of a common thug. It is not possible to separate the two aspects of his life convincingly for knowledgeable potential customers.
    We just had a sermon about that this AM (1 Cor. 5:11). I believe the word can be translated, extortioner, or swindler. If a person professes to be a Christian and practices such things we're not to associate with him, or to eat with them.

    Good points, Don.

    Michael

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  • don60
    replied
    Others have claimed here that religion has nothing to do with selling church organs, but I beg to differ. One has to possess some degree of religious morality to succeed long-term in this profession--and by "succeed" I mean "develop a reputation for fair dealing in an endeavor whose ultimate goal is to glorify God in music."

    And therein lies my main complaint with FF. He is a professing Christian and the music director for a Christian church. His public image is tied as much to these features as to his shady eBay and Craigslist practices. Something is wrong with this disconnect. Either a church organ dealer is known for being a decent, ethical sort or he is known for having the morals of a common thug. It is not possible to separate the two aspects of his life convincingly for knowledgeable potential customers.

    And just in case I am not being clear, even attempting to charge $65k for an organ worth perhaps one-third that amount represents the morals of a common thug in my book.

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  • myorgan
    replied
    Originally posted by Admin View Post
    . . .it might scare potential buyers elsewhere. . . .
    Worked on me!

    Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
    We are somewhat aghast at the gall of someone like FF. . . .
    Have the alternatives for those initials escaped everyone. Not appropriate to list the meaning here, but it pretty much describes what he's doing, though. I don't want the thread moved to the Grease Pit, but they aren't appropriate there either.

    John, I would have probably listed it as "unmitigated gall." No doubt the game will continue.

    Michael

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  • jbird604
    replied
    Originally posted by Admin View Post
    Incidentally, is not ironic that the premise of this thread is that nobody wants organs at any price but that it has now turned into a rant about excessive pricing?
    Ironic yes, but related. Most of us who are deeply involved in the organ world are very much aware that there is something of a glut on the used organ market, and that prices are and should be low. We are somewhat aghast at the gall of someone like FF who seems to think that he can still pull the wool over somebody's eyes like this. No doubt he could tell a prospective buyer that the organ originally sold for "twice that amount" -- though I'd guess he is overstating a little.

    But as has been pointed out somewhere else, the selling price of a new organ from a dealer or builder includes a huge amount of "stuff" that cannot be transferred to a second purchaser if the original owner sells it, even within a short time period. The original price included delivery and installation, setup and voicing, a very generous and lengthy warranty, commissions for the sales team, and dealer profit so that he can continue to support the product. These "extras" account for about half of that retail price, whether the buyer realizes it or not. These monies cannot be refunded nor can they be transferred in most cases, though the factory warranty usually can, if still in effect.

    So when FF re-sells an organ, even if it's only 10 years old (new by organ standards), he might rightly expect to get perhaps 1/5 of the original price if he's lucky. But with the current glut on the market, used organs as-is-where-is are probably bringing more like 1/10 of their original price, even when only 10 or 15 years old. Older ones of course may go for a far smaller fraction of the original price.

    it's a great time to be in the market for a good used organ, but not such a great time to be a dealer!

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  • Admin
    replied
    Originally posted by beel m View Post
    When I worked in the P & O business (40 years ago) I was young and dumb, but the experienced sales guys all seemed to believe that "You can put a load of deodorized manure in a prominent place in the store, along with a fancy sign 'REDUCED' and someone, sometime, will buy it!"
    R, Bill
    Exactly. The Buy It Now price is $65K, but it's also Best Offer. I don't think the seller expects to actually get $65K. That's just the price from which to negotiate the actual price so that the buyer feels good about getting a big discount. I'm not sure I would have chosen that price point for such a strategy as it might scare potential buyers elsewhere, but it's always easier to reduce the price than it is to raise it. So unless a complete idiot with excessive disposable income willing to pay the asking price comes along first, I expect the asking price to drop over the coming weeks and months. In the meantime the seller can gauge what he's likely to get from the Buy It Now offers. His is a waiting game.

    Incidentally, is not ironic that the premise of this thread is that nobody wants organs at any price but that it has now turned into a rant about excessive pricing?

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