Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Christmas Concert or Holiday Concert?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Posts of a political nature will be deleted from this thread as being off-topic. Just don't go there or you'll find yourself out of here.
    -Admin

    Allen 965
    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
    Hauptwerk 4.2

    Comment


    • #17
      To ADMIN:
      woooa, Sorry about that. I didn't realize I did it until after I saw your rely.
      I guess I'm too new to remove (if it wasn't already done). Apologies to the group.

      I will remove offending lines and repost.
      I think I 'm ok now. Please tell me if not.
      I don't want to get kicked-out.
      Dave


      Men,
      You all have said what is needed to be said, but we need to say it to others, those all around us. Michael is at the heart of it. There, at the the pulse where 'they' want Christ taken out of the program and Michael has to 'strike' that word.

      They are the haters, indeed the haters of Christ. If one doesn't believe in Christ then they have no sin. They are home free. Eat, drink and be merry for when you die, your dead and there is no punishment. John 3:16 frees us believers.

      It's odd to me that the 'group' all get 'air time' in radio or TV. Where's the rest of the world?
      Just look at TV! Ancient Aliens ?? It's not just a fun show. Young people watch it and if they are not in a Christian home, they will get sucked in. They never say there is no God, But there is constant innuendo based on imagined and fake scientific knowledge.

      They say, 'oh everybody knows there's no santa claus'. Ergo, there must be no Christ. If there's no Christ then they are home-free i.e. no punishment for their sin-they can do anything now. John 3:16 tells us believers that there is redemption for us.
      I wish I could write here for about an hour but it seems we understand each other. That's the problem, we do but they don't.

      I for one am completely tired of all of this PC stuff.
      Michael, you’re at the cutting edge. You're at the forefront, the front lines.

      Michael... I don't know what to say here in this venue... tell them no.
      Dave

      Comment


      • #18
        There is also a nice verse, something about "do unto others what you would have them do unto you." There's a related wording - "what goes around comes around."

        I wonder why you addressed your comment to "Men." I'm assuming that there are also women who read these posts. Most certainly there are women on both sides of the discussion who are dealing with similar situations.

        We are fortunate to have moderators and administrators who politely offer us chances to correct our behavior and remain part of this wonderful online community.

        Comment


        • myorgan
          myorgan commented
          Editing a comment
          Regeron,

          I'm surprised at you! What chapter and verse is your 2nd quote from? (Regeron 2:13)?

          Sorry, after dealing with an unruly student this afternoon, I'm feeling a bit mischievous. Must be the full moon.

          Michael

        • regeron
          regeron commented
          Editing a comment
          myorgan,

          Nope, sorry. Not from my writings. But a quick search yielded yet some more alternatives:
          - to reap what one sows (Galatians 6:7 - "... whatever a man sows, that will he also reap.");
          - karma (as in "Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.")

          Mischievous? You? Full moon? So hard to believe.... (*eyes rolling, looking heavenward, smirk on face, moderate look of disbelief)
          Last edited by regeron; 11-15-2019, 09:19 PM.

      • #19
        The fact is that 'men' refer specifically to Michael, KC9UDX and Larrytow

        Comment


        • regeron
          regeron commented
          Editing a comment
          Since I'm a man, too, I can already let you know that I have been following your advice. For a number of years, I have been telling people what I feel needs to be said. Progress is slow, but change is evident.

      • #20
        There's an agenda.

        Comment


        • #21
          Respond with compassion always, never anger or negativity. They didn't make you mad, you did that yourself.. He who embodies all compassion is invulnerable.The scale of non-negative reactions is tolerance, acceptance, understanding, compassion, and finally, gratitude. If you can be grateful in all things, all the time, you have transformed.

          Comment


          • #22
            In the last church I served, some people asked when we were going to sing Christmas carols. (I picked all of the music) I explained that hymns are chosen to go with the scripture readings and that we would sing Christmas carols when it was Christmas, however, right now we were in Advent.

            That did not matter to a number of folks, so I as a compromise I suggested that we sing a few carols before the service a couple of Sundays before Christmas. In addition I solicited requests of carols that people would like to sing. The results were rather surprising. One person wanted us to sing Frosty the Snowman! I am not sure what religious tradition that is from and it is not in any hymnal that I am familiar with.
            Bill

            My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

            Comment


            • myorgan
              myorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              Bill,

              I can do you one better. We have a Christmas Eve Eve service (yes, on the 23rd), and one of the parents requested her child be allowed to dance to Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree. Needless to say, it didn't meet the worship theme for the evening.

              This year, I have one soloist who requested to sing Ave Maria (Bach/Gounod) for the service. Even though it is the traditional Catholic version (the Schubert version is considered Protestant), I have recommended she be part of the service.

              To be honest, I didn't know there was a difference between Advent and Christmas until I began playing for a Catholic church last year, so I can understand the congregation's confusion. Unfortunately, we sometimes assume everyone else has the same information we do.

              Michael

            • voet
              voet commented
              Editing a comment
              Michael,

              The church I was describing followed the three year lexionary. This is used not only in the Catholic church, but Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist and other protestant denominations.

              I think the problem is that many people are what we might term cultural Christians. Yes, they want their children baptized, they attend on Christmas and Easter, but they are uninformed about what their religious tradition. I remember one Easter morning when a man came to church wearing rabbit ears.

              This is often demonstrated when a couple wants to have a church wedding, but the all of music they want is secular.

          • #23
            Respond with compassion always,
            It appears to me that we have the New Testament, "turn the other cheek," while the rest of the world is gearing up to re-invoke the Old Testament, "an eye for an eye."

            Must be why this has been the stance for a while now.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	gun-bible-safe.gif
Views:	76
Size:	238.3 KB
ID:	670940

            Comment


            • #24
              Even though it is the traditional Catholic version (the Schubert version is considered Protestant)
              Now I did not know that, Michael...

              Comment


              • #25
                Originally posted by Goff View Post

                Now I did not know that, Michael...
                Neither did I - over here, any "Ave Maria" is considered catholic and won't be part of a protestant service. Besides, it's neither an advent nor a Christmas piece. The Magnificat is, though, and this can be sung in both catholic and protestant settings.

                But that takes us away from the original question.

                I will sing and play in two concerts on the 30th of November and 1st of December plus one special service on the 1st of December including loads of music. If I remember correctly, both concerts are called advent concert but one could argue that the 30th of November isn't part of advent yet.

                Comment


                • #26
                  Here's an option for Medieval secular "Holiday" music. Bonus points for playing on portative organ!


                  [M]Irie it is while sumer ilast
                  with fugheles song
                  oc nu necheth windes blast
                  and weder strong.
                  Ei ei what this nicht is long
                  And ich with wel michel wrong.
                  Soregh and murne and [fast].

                  Comment


                  • #27
                    Originally posted by andijah View Post

                    But that takes us away from the original question.

                    I will sing and play in two concerts on the 30th of November and 1st of December plus one special service on the 1st of December including loads of music. If I remember correctly, both concerts are called advent concert but one could argue that the 30th of November isn't part of advent yet.
                    The Advent / Christmas season difference is so confusing for the general public, and even for a lot of members of quite liturgical denominations. We who work at making the music appropriate for each Sunday and Festival season tend to know all the dates of what is when very well, and sometimes get frustrated when others do not pay much attention to such things. Since "the world" has decided that the Christmas season starts in the middle of October, we have had to make certain terminology adjustments for some events.

                    In my part of the world, any concert ( in a church or elsewhere ) that takes place in December is usually labeled as a Christmas concert. This is for actual concerts apart from regular worship services. For the Sunday and midweek services, we call them by their proper names. For instance, this coming Sunday is Christ The King Sunday, and Christmas music has no place there. Our little village here has a community concert every year in the early part of December, and although the venue for it is a Roman Catholic church, it is labeled as a Christmas ( not Advent ) concert. However, that concert takes place on a Saturday evening, not a Sunday morning.

                    At least around here, if one would call a concert in December an Advent concert, the attendance would be reduced significantly. So ya gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes. But then too, if that concert were labeled anything PC ( holiday, winter, December season, etc. ) rather than a Christmas concert, the attendance would be reduced in the same way ( or more even ! ).

                    For the people who do not celebrate / believe in Christmas, there is nothing offered specifically for them, and we don't actually care. Since Christmas is a Christian holiday by definition, one would not expect Non-Christian people to even WANT to attend such an event. And if they do, they have no reason to complain that they had to listen to Christmas music.

                    Regards, Larry

                    At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

                    Comment


                    • #28
                      Larry,

                      Just a quick reminder that the organization is NOT a church organization, but as part of its history (150+) has performed a Christmas concert every year (I wasn't alive the first 100+ years or so).
                      Originally posted by Larrytow
                      For the people who do not celebrate / believe in Christmas, there is nothing offered specifically for them, and we don't actually care.
                      I would disagree here, in that we do care, therefore we have included secular music, Hanukah music, and music from other traditions as part of the performances. It's not that we don't care, and that's why I bemoaned the change from being an inclusive organization/concert, to excluding one belief system for an upcoming performance.

                      As a follow-up, I would also affirm what Larry states, in that it is probable that on the other side of the pond (Europe) where the population is more in touch with Liturgical traditions, the differences between Advent and Christmas are probably well-known. Here in the USA, depending on the region of the country, such delineations are lost on much of the population.

                      I would also affirm that as Larry states, the change in name (even for a non-church organization) will result in reduced attendance, especially as many in our audience are children and the elderly, who look forward to passing on the tradition of celebrating this time of year in a traditional fashion. Unfortunately, audience considerations came in 2nd in the Board's discussions–in fact, the audience was never mentioned in the discussion.

                      Michael
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • Larrytow
                        Larrytow commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm not really advocating that you follow the lead of what our community chorus does. I was merely telling how it is done here, so that you have lots of various ways to do it to consider, for comparison sake. Also, I live in the middle of rural Wisconsin, and the whole PC thing is not nearly as prevalent here as it is on the east or west coasts. Folks here are very traditional about things of this sort, and truly do not desire to change much. They do sing secular songs in the Christmas concert, but they make no apologies for including many Christmas hymns and carols.

                        Since your situation is rather different in that you have in the past been "inclusive" with musical choices, you really can't NOT do it now.

                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Larry,

                        I think perhaps your geographical location and mine do mirror each other in some ways. The inclusion I mentioned is not only in the music chosen, but also in the membership. We've actually done marches for a concert in the past. I'm not sure I get the relationship there, but we have.

                        This was my first experience with any exclusion on the part of the organization, and it was rather unexpected.

                        Michael

                    • #29
                      Originally posted by myorgan View Post
                      ... we do care, therefore we have included secular music, Hanukah music, and music from other traditions as part of the performances. It's not that we don't care, and that's why I bemoaned the change from being an inclusive organization/concert, to excluding one belief system for an upcoming performance.
                      Just to play Devil's Advocate re: inclusive vs exclusive... "Announcement: Tonight is Men's Night - women are welcome." OR "The executive has decided that from now on, women are welcome to attend Men's Night." Does this really make sense? If you're changing the list of participants, old naming practices might need to be changed, too. Am I being exclusive if I call it an "Everyone is welcome" event? If so, how?

                      I will admit that we are trapped between 'traditions' and wanting to be neighborly and inclusive. Not always easy.

                      Comment


                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Regeron,

                        Have you been attending my church?!!! Just this Spring the pastor asked if we could invite women to the men's breakfast on Saturday mornings. Evidently, the ladies had started a group at one time, but were unable to agree on anything and it devolved into a gossip-fest, subsequently disbanding.

                        I think I get your point, but am wondering if you're also making my point for me. In any event, I have taken a leave of absence with the group in question until I address some health concerns during Christmas vacation, so the discussion (for me) is moot now.

                        Michael

                    • #30
                      I recall (not to be political at all!) President Obama, or at least one of his staff, making a statement that someone (don't recall who)n to be like Jesus and bring people together. That has stuck in my mind since; I really wanted to tell that person that Jesus did not come to bring people together, but to divide them as if with a sword! Exclusive, not inclusive!

                      Comment


                      • regeron
                        regeron commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Part of the first sentence is missing. Could you adjust it to show the missing part? Thanks.

                      • KC9UDX
                        KC9UDX commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Sure. Sorry about that. It happens all the time when I use the editor here but I usually catch it. The "n" is just "needed".

                        Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should always be exclusive. But clearly (in my opinion) there is a time and a place for exclusion.
                    Working...
                    X