Allen Voicing

[LFPC]

I recently started playing an Allen Renaissance R250 (2001). Initially, I was nothappy with thesound.I figured out how to adjust the individual stop volumes from the console, andwith a little rebalancing, I was able toimprove the overall soundquite a lot.Makes me wonder ifsomevoicing work mightimprove the sound even further. The trouble is that I don't really know what digital voicing is, or what it's capable of doing.</P>


Wondering if someonewould be willing to share abasicoverview of Allen digital organ voicing?</P>

[arie v]

Re: Allen Voicing



Hi,</p>

I am not a specialist in Allen organs, but can tell you from my limited exposure to Allen Renaissance organs, that the factory voicings are not that great.</p>

There is a limited amount of adjustment you can do with the console controller. Allen has however a software program that allows one to change voicing points, adjust parameters on a note by note basis, adjust various filters etc. You should be able to smooth out any inconsistencies with this program. It is called DOVE.</p>

Allen has another program, which works in conjunction with DOVE. It is called Sound Matrix. It is in effect a library of stops (samples), and allows you to swap one sample for another.</p>

I believe the DOVE software can be purchased by the end user. However the Sound Matrix is a dealer only software deal.</p>

I hope this helpful here.</p>

AV
</p>

[LFPC]

Re: Allen Voicing

Thanks for the response.Will pursue the software. Would appreciate hearing more about"voicing points" and "various filters".

[Clarion]

Re: Allen Voicing

[quote user="LFPC"]


I recently started playing an Allen Renaissance R250 (2001). Initially, I was nothappy with thesound.I figured out how to adjust the individual stop volumes from the console, andwith a little rebalancing, I was able toimprove the overall soundquite a lot.Makes me wonder ifsomevoicing work mightimprove the sound even further. The trouble is that I don't really know what digital voicing is, or what it's capable of doing.</P>


Wondering if someonewould be willing to share abasicoverview of Allen digital organ voicing? [/quote]</P>


The "basicoverview of Allen digital organ voicing", istheir effort toextractfurther $$$from their"customers" for the mere privilegeof settingup their instrument the way it should have be set up trom the outset!</P>

[LFPC]

Re: Allen Voicing



:)</P>


Would still like to learn more about what voicing actually does. Can you alter the amount of chiff? Is it like the equalizer on my stereo? Are thereadjustments that can bring it closer to the effect of real pipes? </P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[jbird604]

Re: Allen Voicing



The DOVE software addresses the tone generation program in the organ's processor and memory so that you can make very fine adjustments of the levels of each stop and indeed each note of each stop.</P>


You can also change the points at which each sample crosses over to the next. You understand that a given stop will have pipe samples that were recorded only for a limited number of notes, perhaps 8 or 10 for a rank. Each sample is being transposed by the processor so that it comes out at the 6 or 8 different pitches that it serves as "sample" for, and you can move around the breaking points between the samples, in case a particular sample happens to suit your ears or your room better than the one originally assigned to a given keynote.</P>


You can also "pan" a stop, group of stops, or division between audio channels. This will allow you to somewhat "virtually"position stops in space between the speakers, rather than having a stop emanate from only a point source. There are other tonal adjustments that can be made, including some degree of tuning and equalizing.</P>


I don't think you will find a specific "chiff" adjustment, as the chiff is part of the sample and it is what it is. Tinkering with the equalization might allow you to raise or lower the perceived chiff in a stop, but at the expense of changing the overall tone color.</P>


As Arie mentioned, there is the Sound Matrix program which allows entire stops to be swapped out, but you might or might not be able to get hold of that program. If you can get a copy of DOVE, you'll be able to voice to your heart's content and will probably arrive at some very convincing pipe-like sounds.</P>


Clarion, your point is well-taken that voicing software is more or less "free" with some brands, and I wish all makers would let their end users have some opportunity to play around with the voicing. However, there is always the opportunity for an end user to totally screw up an organ, as many of us who sell and service have discovered. </P>


This can leave an organ in horrible condition, out there in a church where it is being heard regularly, to the detriment of the builder's reputation. For that reason, some builders keep their voicing software close to their chest and make it difficult for end users to tinker much with the organ's sound after the installers are finished with it.</P>


John</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[Clarion]

Re: Allen Voicing

[quote user="jbird604"] Clarion, your point is well-taken that voicing software is more or less "free" with some brands, and I wish all makers would let their end users have some opportunity to play around with the voicing. However, there is always the opportunity for an end user to totally screw up an organ, as many of us who sell and service have discovered.


This can leave an organ in horrible condition, out there in a church where it is being heard regularly, to the detriment of the builder's reputation. For that reason, some builders keep their voicing software close to their chest and make it difficult for end users to tinker much with the organ's sound after the installers are finished with it.[/quote]</P>


Although you say "there is always the opportunity for an end user to totally screw up an organ, as many of us who sell and service have discovered." I think you'd really have to try to mess up. As an old guywho lacks any measure of sophistication in the modern digital world, re-voicing my Phoenix to meet my proclivities, wasa total no brainer. And I still occasionally load up the voicing program to tweakmy organ into compliance with my most recent whims. [:P] Then there's the wonderous/scarey Configprogamthat allowsyou to completely re-map the the conections of the entire organ!! [:|] After an enjoyable year of playing with thisstuff, I've neveroncemanaged to screw up the organ; norin an absolutely worst case disasater scenario, needed to reload the initial or subsequent config files for the organ, which can take you right back the the original configuration.</P>

[LFPC]

Re: Allen Voicing



John, Thank you for the voicing overview. Very helpful! The organ does have the"point source" effect that you described,so "virtually positioning" the sound between the speakers may be wortha try.</P>


Bill</P>

[Clarion]

Re: Allen Voicing

[quote user="arie v"]Allen has another program, which works in conjunction with DOVE. It is called Sound Matrix. It is in effect a library of stops (samples), and allows you to swap one sample for another.


I believe the DOVE software can be purchased by the end user.However the Sound Matrix is a dealer only software deal.[/quote]</P>


Restricting availability of Allen software to Allen dealers only, may no longer be an option, if current legislation under consideration in the USA is passed into law. Although the primary focus is upon opportunistic automobile manufacturers whorestrictsoftware to fix their vehicles to dealers only;I can't envision thenew legislation being singularlydirected at automobile manufacturers; but allmanufacturers who are engaged in asimilar sweetheart deals with their dealers, to the detriment of customers who haveno other choice than to deal a local Allen dealer; a dealer hemay not even like. [:(]</P>


Basically: if you buy a Ford product, in many instances, you are absolutely stuck with dealing with your localFord dealer to performing a whole host of diagnostic,repair and computer reprogramming services. You can't have the work doneby your trusted local mechanic, and perhaps bettermechanic, 'cause Ford won't sellhimthe computer software neededtorepair the vehicle!</P>


Whether a monopoly, or merely a guarantee that Allen dealers can charge customers whatever they wish with total impunity, since they are the only game in town; [:S]President Obama has promised to fix that sort of nonsense! Let'shope that in the computer age, where few of these matters have yet been addressed, thatthese new legislative measureswill notbe focused merelyuponautomotive industry, but willaddress ALLunscrupulous manufacturers who are playing the same distasteful game.[:(]</P>

[bootchman]

Re: Allen Voicing



Another kudo for Hauptwerk. You don't have to worry about spreading
samples, every pipe is a separate sample. Voicing is always available
to the end user, no matter my current "whim". And there are always new
instruments coming available, most notably the Salibury Cathedral
Willis organ with that magnificent tuba stop. </p>Roy

[LFPC]

Re: Allen Voicing



Another basic question about the Allen voicing:</P>


Will the DOVE software allow you to adjust theindividual midi voices? If I adjust thevolume knob for one midi voice, then it's too soft for another midi voice, which limits the midi combinations that canbe used betweenSw, Gt, and Pd.</P>


Bill</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[jbird604]

Re: Allen Voicing



Bill,</P>


Not sure. Which expander is on the organ -- MDS, MDS II, Ensemble, Vista? I'm inclined to think that the later expanders such as the Ensemble have built-in ability to modify the MIDI sounds for level. But you'd have to consult the manual for the expander you have.</P>


If this capabilityis not built into the expander, then I think DOVE can do it. The problem you describe is obviously real, and I would think Allen has a solution for it, one way or another.</P>


John</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[LFPC]

Re: Allen Voicing



Thank you, John. Ican't remember which expander it has, soI willtake a look.</P>


Bil</P>

[myorgan]

Re: Allen Voicing



[quote user="bootchman"]Another kudo for Hauptwerk.[/quote]</p>

YAY FOR HAUPTWERK AND ITS SUPERIORITY!  </p>

Now back on the topic of Allen Voicing, I'm interested in learning more about the capabilities of the software and its availability.  Does the software only come with purchase, or is it available for download or purchase otherwise? </p>

[jbird604]

Re: Allen Voicing



Michael,</P>


That's one Allen question I can't answer for you. The only copy of DOVE I have seenis a "beta" version thatwas given to me by the local dealer so that I could make adjustments as needed on organs he'd sold. I don't know how one would go about getting acopy. Perhaps when you buy an Allen Renaissance or Quantum the dealer offers the software with the organ for a fee.</P>


Of course, DOVE is applicable only to the Renaissance/Quantum technology and has no relevance to older systems.I was speculating in the last post about the possibility that DOVE can address the voices in the newer expander modules, the Ensemble and the Vista. But I don't know that for a fact. Perhaps someone else can enlighten us.</P>


John</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>