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Next Best Thing to Pipes?

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  • Next Best Thing to Pipes?

    Hello all! In your opinion what electronic organ is the next best thing to having a real pipe organ? What sounds the closest and works the best for all around use? I know of Allen, Rodgers, and Phoenix...

  • #2
    Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?

    [8-)] Oh no...here we go agaaaain.[:(]

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    • #3
      Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



        This is about as sweet as I can find:</p>

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j80oxOLm_vc </p>

        Andy
        </p>

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        • #5
          Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?

          Ok guys I understand that nothing can compare to a real pipe organ, but there comes a point when most churches or people cannot afford a 2 million dollar instrument.

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          • #6
            Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



            A fellow named Russ Greene from Winnipeg had a nice summary of their organ search over on Pipechat.org. He's the Organist/Choirmaster there, and I'm obviously biased, but...
            </p>

            He started with Ahlborn-Galanti, Allen, Johannus, and Rodgers and added Phoenix almost as an afterthought.</p>

            Their results:
            </p>

            Sound - Phoenix</p>

            Build Quality - Phoenix</p>

            Customization - Phoenix</p>

            Affordability - Phoenix</p>

            And the result was this instrument being installed</p>

            Andy (Our results matched Mr. Greene's... your mileage may vary)
            </p>

            </p>

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            • #7
              Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



              deleted post</P>
              <P mce_keep="true"></P>
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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              • #8
                Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



                Strad,</P>


                You ask what is the "next best thing" to pipes, when the money isn't there. And churches dochoose digitals for various reasons, not just money. You may be looking for folks to name brand names and give their sales pitches, but that has already been thoroughly hashed out on this forum!</P>


                I'd suggest that the brand name is not nearly as important as finding a dealer/installer who knows what he's doing, who understands the role and function of the organ in your service, who isn't shy about selling you the right size organ with adequate amps and speakers (even when he knows that a competitor will try to win you over by offering to do an installation for far less money). </P>


                A dealer who knows how to voice and finish an organ and will actually spend the time needed to do that and do it right. A dealer who will honestly advise you if your sanctuary needs modifications before he attempts to put in an organ, who will tell you up front if the console location or speaker chambers or conduits are simply not right and must be amended. Will tell you if the acoustical setting of your sanctuary is just awful (if it is) and that he'd rather not even try to install an organ until some things are done to bring some natural reverberation to the room.</P>


                I play every Sunday on a 25-year-old digital (obviously an Allen, the only company that had digital organs that long ago) and I find it quite satisfactory (to quote Mary Poppins). But I'm satisfied with it because I installed it myself, and I feel that I did the best that could be done with what I had to work with. If you know me, you know that I swap out the organ at church every couple years, when something newer or better comes along. So I may have something entirely different to play on two years from now.</P>


                To begin with, I had the rare privilege of designing the sanctuary and overseeing the construction in 2001. I was thinking "organ and choir" all along because that's what I do. I made sure the room was lively, though I had to compromise a bit for the sake of cost, comfort and safety. Carpet (very thin and tight) where people walk, but hardwood where possible. Pew cushions, but not overstuffed. Suspended ceilingwith "slick" sheetrock squares, not acoustical tiles. Walls are smooth, ceiling high, no draperies or other absorbent treatment,etc. The room is not huge, seats 400 in a pinch but 250 comfortably.</P>


                I also spared no needed expense on audio. The organ feeds into a 3500 watt six-channel bi-amped power unit, which drives a massive array of speakers, including eight 18" woofers, eighteen 8" mid/bass, and eight horn tweeters. The speakers are installed in baffles that are set at varying angles and heights around the choir loft, projecting sound at the ceiling and sidewalls as well as directly outward.</P>


                So, this organ in this installation probably performs far better than it ever did in the original dealer's "stock" setup. And I think it does the job of an organ very well, which is to say that it leads congregational singing, fills the room with pleasing sound, is easy to listen to, shakes the room when I want it to,has a lot of tonal variety,and isa joy to perform upon. I sounds as much like pipes as digital technology allowed back then. I think it stacks up fairly well against the modern stuff, but that's another argument altogether.</P>


                That makes it "the nextbest thing to pipes"that my church can afford,at this time. Not that I won't trade it for a newer or larger onewhen the opportunity arises!</P>


                Hope that doesn't start any fights. At least I'm not pushing any brand or builder.</P>


                John</P>
                <P mce_keep="true"></P>
                John
                ----------
                *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?

                  Phillip, I couldn't have represented what I would have said better myself! But, here is an alternative that may suffice both thoughts. And with a little more tweaking, he may be on to something. http://www.smallpipeorgans.com/index.html

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



                    Clumber,</p>

                    I saw that posting too on pipechat.</p>

                    Mr. Greene states he came to Toronto to check out the AG-3200. Nobody at the Artisan-Classic organs ever remembers meeting Mr. Greene or having him audition the organ. I used to work there, but maybe I was gone by the time he was looking. All I remember was the manager there corresponded with him. But it sounded like he was more fishing for information than seriously considering an A-G organ. Good chance if he or anyone else just came by the organ may have been out on rental or not set up for auditioning. Always best to come by appointment, and that goes for all dealers.</p>

                    AV
                    </p>

                    </p>

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                    • #11
                      Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



                      dup</P>
                      2008: Phoenix III/44

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                      • #12
                        Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?

                        [
                        2008: Phoenix III/44

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                        • #13
                          Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



                          [quote user="Strad "07""]Ok guys I understand that nothing can compare to a real pipe organ, but there comes a point when most churches or people cannot afford a 2 million dollar instrument.[/quote]</P>


                          Where did that price come from? Probably a newspaper article trying to grab the readers attention.</P>


                          Pipe organs run the gamut of pricing just like anything else. I believe it to be a great disservice to the industry to throw around numbers like that. I have run into many an organ committee member that was ready to dimiss the idea of purchasing a pipe organ because they had read or heard that they cost millions of dollars or that they believed that they were no longer being produced.</P>


                          I understand that your question concerns "what's the next best thing an authentic acoustic instrument", but I feel that the premise is flawed and based on some exaggerated concept of cost.</P>

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                          • #14
                            Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



                            There is a 20+ rank pipe organ being removed from a church in BC that will be available - reconditioned, revoiced, andinstalledby a reputable pipe organ builder in the Pacific Northwest- for somewhere in the neighborhood of $150,000.</P>


                            For more information please contact me.</P>

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                            • #15
                              Re: Next Best Thing to Pipes?



                              [quote user="arie v"] Mr. Greene states he came to Toronto to check out the AG-3200. Nobody at the Artisan-Classic organs ever remembers meeting Mr. Greene or having him audition the organ. [/quote]</P>


                              Wow! How do you know who did, or did not come into your showroom to test an organ at Artisan-Classic??! Yoursuggestionthat Mr. Greene mustbe a liar, is inappropriate.</P>
                              <P mce_keep="true"></P>
                              2008: Phoenix III/44

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