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  • #16
    Originally posted by myorgan View Post
    I would say the primary advantage to replacing surrounds is because presumably the organ was designed to use the original speakers you currently have.
    That make a lot of sense, I just learned that my 2 walker bass cabinets were constructed using 15" Eminence Woofers. No doubt they were chosen and the organ voiced so as to be together. When working properly they would certainly produce some beautiful tones with my 16 and 32 foot stops.
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    Church: Allen Renaissance Quantum Q-325
    Hm: Rodgers Cambridge 785 & Kawai KG-2
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    • #17
      MargoT,

      Sometimes I'm the odd man out here, so always remember that my advice is worth exactly what it costs ($0) .... I have nothing but the highest regard for the other members here, and I know that many of them have better organ ears than I do, and I value everything they have to say. I am glad to hear that you got the capacitors changed out. No reason why a good PDI organ like that shouldn't last for many more years.

      Well, I went to the MCM website and looked at those very inexpensive 15" rubber-surround woofers and lo and behold there was my review. I guess I'm just the kind of person who likes to see his name (or handle) in public places! But what I said there is the truth. We have replaced a LOT of Rodgers and Allen woofers with these, and have never regretted it once.

      The adage "you get what you pay for" is certainly true in the speaker world, so I'm sure there are reasons why other subs cost five or ten times as much money as these. Perhaps quality control is not as good -- I do recall getting one with a rattle in it one time among the dozens that we have ordered. But honestly, I have not heard any degradation of any organ's sound due to the use of these woofers. I truly believe that putting in these RUBBER-surround woofers is good long-term policy, because foam surrounds can never be as durable as rubber, even though the foam you get nowadays is probably better than the stuff they were using back in the 80's. Foam IS more compliant, and it may be true that foam can theoretically produce more output at the lowest frequencies, so I'm not saying I have the last word on this.

      So you might think of buying these woofers as a very cheap "experiment" -- they only cost $22 each, cheaper than replacing the foam, and you just take them out of the box and pop them right into your cabinet. If you think they aren't as punchy in the low bass as the old ones, just adjust the bass thumbwheels on the audio board in your 785 until you are satisfied. To be honest, every time I have used these woofers in a job, I've included some voicing in the deal, so if there were any deficiencies in the woofers we completely compensated for it with the voicing.

      I'm not trying to be a shill for MCM, but I seem to keep going back to them for speakers (and for reverb units, as I just got through posting about on my "new organ" thread), because they just seem to have really decent stuff at unbelievably low prices. I'm sure all their stuff is made in China or somewhere, but the prices are just hard to resist. Their higher-end speakers, which still cost far less than what you'd pay for comparable Eminence brand, are really nice as replacements in many other organ cabinets.

      Anyway, you've seen what I had to say, and I don't regret saying it. So give them a try. It won't cost much at all. And let us know what you think.
      John
      ----------
      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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      • #18
        Here's my take on replacement speaker drivers:

        1. Woofers: the exact brand and specs don't matter IF the woofer will be appropriately tuned to the cabinet its used in. So, for a ported system, the specs don't have to be the same as the original, but the specs do have to match the tuning of the cabinet/port combination. So you may very well substitute a non-original woofer and get suitable performance. For sealed box systems, the specifications and tuning are even less critical--you'll either get smooth bass, boomy bass, or under damped bass. But, if you stick size for size, you'll likely be OK. Even different units of the same model woofer will measure different specs, by the way.

        2. Mid-range and tweeters: the crossovers/drivers for mids and tweeters are very sensitive to differences in the drivers, and so I strongly recommend using the original design unless you've got the speaker design skills to rework the crossover to the drivers. There's a huge difference with mid-ranges and tweeters compared to woofers. Often times, the published specifications for mids & tweets do not provide enough information to evaluate substitutions.

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        • #19
          Wow. It is so wonderful to have such a wealth of knowledge available on such short notice. Thank you all. An interesting coincidence is the reason we saw John's comments on the MCM website in the first place. That being a recommendation for the same 2974 woofer by another highly regarded long time organ technician we know. So we have decided to follow everyone's advice. :-) I need the organ back up and running ASAP so we've ordered the MCM woofers. And then because the original woofers worked so well we'll keep them and install new surrounds at a later less hurried time. Maybe in the future I'll be able to report on any differences I hear. If anyone would like any pictures let us know.

          Margo
          ◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢|◣◢
          Church: Allen Renaissance Quantum Q-325
          Hm: Rodgers Cambridge 785 & Kawai KG-2
          ◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤◥|◤

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MargoT View Post
            So we have decided to follow everyone's advice. :-) I need the organ back up and running ASAP so we've ordered the MCM woofers. And then because the original woofers worked so well we'll keep them and install new surrounds at a later less hurried time. Maybe in the future I'll be able to report on any differences I hear. If anyone would like any pictures let us know.
            Margo,

            Thanks so much for sharing your decision with us. Yes, photos are always great, and I look forward to hearing your impressions once you've tried the new woofers. New, less-expensive options are always useful for those of us who don't have the money to spend on replacements. Oh, and I think I mentioned this before, but be sure you note the positive and negative connections when you replace them. Phase cancellation has the potential to be a big issue with woofers especially, but I'm sure you know that already. I got an organ for almost nothing that way.

            Thanks also for coming back to the Forum and sharing your experiences with us.

            Michael
            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
            • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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