Sustain Knob on Allen?

[Polkahero]

I'm playing a digital Allen M-II 305 modelfrom around 1988 at my church, and it has a sustain knob on the left side nextto the transposer knob. Turning this knob doesn't affect the sound at all. Is this supposed to create a reverb effect or something? There is no mention of it in the owner's manual. The acoustics are really dry, so I would like to know if this control could help with the sound if it's operating correctly.

[MarkS]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?

It should have an effect only if percussion or sustain tabs are depressed. It would be especially useful for getting the right length of decay for percussion voices programmed in the alterable voice card reader.

[myorgan]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?



I have a MOS-2, 505B. The sustain knob only controls the length of the sustain when the percussion tab is pressed down. While the percussion tab is intended only to be used with percussion cards from the alterables, I believe on the MOS-2 models it also affected the Swell stops--perhaps the flutes only. Experiment, and see what effect it has on various stops.</P>


To overcome the acoustically dry environment, you will need to play with minimal separation between the inner voices of the hymns (my church is like that as well). Melody should be legato with appropriate phrasing breaks. This is contrary to some larger churches where there is much reverb, and one needs to separate almost everything.</P>


If you want reverb, perhaps you could obtain a reverb unit to add to the organ. Another member on this forum regularly uses a reverb unit with the organs he installs in his church. He keeps it realistic to the church's environment, so it doesn't stick out as being "odd," and not belonging.</P>


Hope this helps.</P>


Michael</P>

[Polkahero]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?

Thanks for the replies; I'll check out various stops on the swell when I get back there Tuesday for practice. I'll have to ask if there are any alterable voice cards around, not sure if the reader in the organ actually works!

[myorgan]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?



The first step to finding out if the card reader works is to check out the following picture: http://organforum.com/photos/myorgan...rd-Reader.aspx</P>


With the exception of the light that is out (can obviously be seen in the photo), the card reader lights appear as you should see themfrom inside the organ. However, remember that looking from the front of the organ sitting on the bench, you should see (from left to right):</P>
<UL>
<LI>2 Lights</LI>
<LI>Blank</LI>
<LI>7 Lights</LI>
<LI>Blank</LI>
<LI>1 Light</LI>[/list]


If any lights are missing, you can still test the cards to see if they are working, but they won't sound right. Places to look for the cards include:</P>
<UL>
<LI>In a drawer under the right side, or left side of the organ.</LI>
<LI>In the organ bench--the lid will either lift, or there will be two large holes on the organ side of the bench for storage.</LI>
<LI>Anywhere else the organist might have left them.</LI>[/list]


Keep us posted on how practice goes on Tuesday.</P>


Michael</P>


P.S. Next time I'm near my MOS-2 at church (probably next Sunday), I'll check also to see what the Percussion stop affects. I'm curious now!!!</P>

[Polkahero]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?



Just got back from the church, checked everything out and made a discovery! There's a drawer on the left side of the console and there happens to be about 17 cards inside. Checked out the reader and all of the lights Michaelmentioned are working so I tried out the cards and all of themwork. I'm not too familiar with these cards but most seem to be extra solo stops; I actually wasn't too impressed with most of the sounds. There is a tubular chime card that sounds nothing like tubular chimes! I'm not sure how much use I'll have for these; I use the organ primarily for only hymn playing (mostly foundation stops) whereas most of these cards are reed/string stops.</P>


I also checked out the sustain knob with the percussion tabs and it seems to affect all of the stops on both manuals. It works but I don't like the effect it imparts to the sound so I probably won't make much use of this feature either.</P>


Unfortunately, a 15" driver blew in one of the four speakers in back of the church as I was playing tonight. I took the grill off of the cabinet and the surround of the speaker is actually torn in spots! Never saw a speaker blow like that before. Any idea what 15s Allen put in their speaker cabinets back in the early 80s? I'll probably just disconnect that speaker cabinet for right now, funny how this cabinet only has one 15 while the other three have built-in crossovers with smaller speakers. There are also speakers in front of the church but these are hidden behind a screen. Seems like most of the foundation stops sound from these whereas the pedal division comes from the rear set of speakers.</P>

[myorgan]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?

[quote user="Polkahero"] I also checked out the sustain knob with the percussion tabs and it seems to affect all of the stops on both manuals. It works but I don't like the effect it imparts to the sound so I probably won't make much use of this feature either.[/quote]


Unfortunately, the MOS sustain was rather primitive and unsatisfying. One can hear the sound fading out in increments. The hope is that in a larger church, the congregation would not notice. I've managed to overcome that somewhat by holding the key down until the sound disappears--that sometimes helps. Also, play with the sustain length while holding the key down.</P>


[quote user="Polkahero"] . . .I actually wasn't too impressed with most of the sounds. There is a tubular chime card that sounds nothing like tubular chimes! I'm not sure how much use I'll have for these; I use the organ primarily for only hymn playing (mostly foundation stops) whereas most of these cards are reed/string stops.[/quote]</P>


Concerning the Tubular Chimes, that stop is intended to be played one octave lower. I believe Allen corrected this in later technology (ADC or MDS), but they may not have. One can purchase cards for extra partials which help make a more realistic chime sound. Allen was not particularly helpful when I questioned them about this. The Chrysoglott is an immensely satisfying card to use with sustan. Originally intended for theatre organs, it is very useful in church as a Chime substitute.</P>


On Allen's website, you can purchase cards for $6.00/ea. with a minimum purchase of 6 cards. They have a nice principal chorus card (8', 4', 2') which adds it to the Swell if needed. Let me know of cards you're interested in, and perhaps I can record them for you if I have them. That way, you'll know in advance.</P>


[quote user="Polkahero"] Unfortunately, a 15" driver blew in one of the four speakers in back of the church as I was playing tonight. I took the grill off of the cabinet and the surround of the speaker is actually torn in spots! Never saw a speaker blow like that before. Any idea what 15s Allen put in their speaker cabinets back in the early 80s? I'll probably just disconnect that speaker cabinet for right now, funny how this cabinet only has one 15 while the other three have built-in crossovers with smaller speakers. There are also speakers in front of the church but these are hidden behind a screen. Seems like most of the foundation stops sound from these whereas the pedal division comes from the rear set of speakers.[/quote]</P>


Is the 15" speaker for your pedal channel? I'd suspect that it is, and that the other speakers will satisfactorily handle the manuals. The speakers in the back of the church are probably antiphonal speakers, so you can get around that by turning them off until the repair is made. The switch should be on the console with wording like: Antiphonal On or Main Organ Off. You'll hear a click in the console if there is an antiphonal relay turning the speakers on and/or off.</P>


I have a fellow who repairs my 15" speakers for approximately $35.00 each. It's not a difficult task, and is a common problem in speakers of that age. Just be sure you get the polarity right when reconnecting the speaker when it is repaired. If you connect the wires backwards, it can cancel out the bass altogether. That's how I got my first organ. Evidently, someone in the church did the repair, and they never understood why the organ had no more bass. Great loss to them--cheap buy for me! Used it with the Symphony a few months later.</P>


Good luck with your new-found toy, and let me know if you need any help. Allen used a numbering scheme to describe the tonality of the cards as well as the amplitude. Perhaps I can help you wade through it.</P>


Michael</P>


P.S. If you disconnect the speaker, it may upset the overall balance of the organ. Should you disconnect it, also make sure the two ends of the wires do not touch--it may cause the amplifier to trip and need to be reset inside the organ. Others would know more about that than I do.</P>

[Polkahero]

Re: Sustain Knob on Allen?



Well, that rattling speaker was really bothering me so I went to church today to see what I could do about it. I was going to disconnect the speaker terminals, but I ended up taking the back panel off of the console and noticed three amplifiers with gain knobs inside. I ended up turning the gain down on the bottom amplifier which seems to control most of the sub-frequencies. The middle amp also provides bottom end; I'm not sure if all of the stops go through each amp and they're just separated by crossovers or ? Anyway, it sounds alot better even though you can't "fee" the bottom end as much as before. Definitely usable for this Sunday's service.</P>


Michael, I tried that tubular chimes card again with the percussion tablet and sustain adjusted and it definitely sounds better than yesterday but it still doesn't sound like my home church's actual chimes (not digital!) I did a search on "alterable voices" on this forum and saw you had an Excel spreadsheet describing the various tone cards. Do you still have this available? I brought the cards home so I can compare them with what is on Allen's website. I liken these to the extra sound cards I have for my Alesis synthesizer-extra sounds that are similar to what's already built-in but don't necessarily sound any better.</P>


Thanks for all your insight, I'm pretty new to this digital organ world. The 1961Hammond A-100 in my avatar was this church's main organ until 1983 when they acquired the Allen. They let me take it home and it now serves as my practice organ. It rocks with the Leslie 330 speaker I bought for it!</P>