Artisan Products

[Moller Artiste]

Does anyone have feedback to share about Artisan products? Any experience with the Sound Engine or other components in Artisan's system? I'm considering using their system but wanted to see what others think before I purchase. Has anyone used the pipe interface and the sound engine together as a combination organ?</P>

[CarillonBells]

Re: Artisan Products



I can't offer much advice yet, but I have spoken with Mark at Artisan and he was incredibly friendly and helpful with all of my questions. I am planning to use their Micro MIDI system to run my very large carillon system, and integrate it into my organ console (possibly with the exception of a few items, as I may use Allen's plug and play MIDI board to provide keyboard and pedalboard output prior to the uMIDI boards).</p>

All the feedback I have seen so far is very positive, and the modules are very versatile in their function.
</p>

[Guest]

A quick update on the Artisan sound engine and related equipment: money NOT well spent, and hardware NOT well supported. "Clipping" began almost immediately when the final finishing was done, and Artisan became immediately arrogant and downright combative, assigning blame to equipment that they knew from the outset that we would be using. The sounds are wonderful, installation easy - support is nearly non-existent, as the person in question talks incessantly and a word cannot be gotten in edgewise. Our tech who did the installation, who works with digital organs for a living, has seriously questioned the integrity of the equipment and most certainly the quality of the (non) support. While we have an instrument that is "playable" to a certain degree, any registration above mezzo-forte or the use of the manual-to-pedal couplers produces an horrendous clipping effect. In addition to the initial investment and related expenses, we ruined a perfectly restorable vintage Allen custom organ. Hence, we have a lovely, nearly $7,000 rolltop desk that plays soft music beautifully. We regret that we will have to take legal action to at least recover our expenses. We couldn't - in good conscience - recommend Artisan to anyone on a budget. There's a CRYING need for an inexpensive, easy-to-install system out there - that works. But this is NOT it.

[toodles]

A quick update on the Artisan sound engine and related equipment: money NOT well spent, and hardware NOT well supported...

As I'm considering Artisan equipment, I asked them about this situation. They advised me that working with the tech, all issues were resolved as of mid-August. KPO6949: can you advise if the equipment is working well now?

Toodles

[CarillonBells]

I am interested to hear how this has (or hasn't) resolved. So far no problems on my end, though I'm deep into wiring and haven't gotten nearly to the point of programming and testing things up yet. I also just have the more established Micro MIDI control system without any sound engines, as it is being used in my carillon system.

[radagast]

A quick update on the Artisan sound engine and related equipment: money NOT well spent, and hardware NOT well supported. "Clipping" began almost immediately when the final finishing was done, and Artisan became immediately arrogant and downright combative, assigning blame to equipment that they knew from the outset that we would be using. The sounds are wonderful, installation easy - support is nearly non-existent, as the person in question talks incessantly and a word cannot be gotten in edgewise. Our tech who did the installation, who works with digital organs for a living, has seriously questioned the integrity of the equipment and most certainly the quality of the (non) support. While we have an instrument that is "playable" to a certain degree, any registration above mezzo-forte or the use of the manual-to-pedal couplers produces an horrendous clipping effect. In addition to the initial investment and related expenses, we ruined a perfectly restorable vintage Allen custom organ. Hence, we have a lovely, nearly $7,000 rolltop desk that plays soft music beautifully. We regret that we will have to take legal action to at least recover our expenses. We couldn't - in good conscience - recommend Artisan to anyone on a budget. There's a CRYING need for an inexpensive, easy-to-install system out there - that works. But this is NOT it.

The first question that comes to mind is this: Who is the "tech" that installed it? You said he (or she) "works with digital organs for a living". Do they work for another organ company? If so, you should really question as to whether the tech deliberately botched the install.

[m&m's]

A quick update on the Artisan sound engine and related equipment: money NOT well spent, and hardware NOT well supported. "Clipping" began almost immediately when the final finishing was done, and Artisan became immediately arrogant and downright combative, assigning blame to equipment that they knew from the outset that we would be using. The sounds are wonderful, installation easy - support is nearly non-existent, as the person in question talks incessantly and a word cannot be gotten in edgewise. Our tech who did the installation, who works with digital organs for a living, has seriously questioned the integrity of the equipment and most certainly the quality of the (non) support. While we have an instrument that is "playable" to a certain degree, any registration above mezzo-forte or the use of the manual-to-pedal couplers produces an horrendous clipping effect. In addition to the initial investment and related expenses, we ruined a perfectly restorable vintage Allen custom organ. Hence, we have a lovely, nearly $7,000 rolltop desk that plays soft music beautifully. We regret that we will have to take legal action to at least recover our expenses. We couldn't - in good conscience - recommend Artisan to anyone on a budget. There's a CRYING need for an inexpensive, easy-to-install system out there - that works. But this is NOT it.

If clipping is occurring, then the volume level is too high at some point. You may have too high a signal from the Sound Engine into the preamp, or from the preamp into the power amp.

I know Mark Andersen personally, and he does not do shoddy work. Your problem is on your end,. with your signal levels. At some point, you must reduce it.

[Admin]

If clipping is occurring, then the volume level is too high at some point. You may have too high a signal from the Sound Engine into the preamp, or from the preamp into the power amp.

Maybe, maybe not. The clipping may be occurring in the digital domain as the result of numeric overflow as stops are added. Using a 'scope it shouldn't be too difficult determine in what part of the chain the problem lies.

I have to wonder whether the manufacturer offered to check out or replace the delivered product or copped an "we can't possibly be at fault" attitude.

[toodles]

According to Artisan, the user reloaded a sample multiple times at various volume levels which caused the bulk of the problem. I can't imagine this was part of the intended use of the Artisan designs, since it's so antithetical to any type of pipe organ design.

Artisan said they worked directly with the tech and the problems are resolved and it's working fine.

Since this is what Artisan says, it'd be nice if the original poster could confirm or refute. It's one thing to say a company's product doesn't work right and won't stand by it--it's quite a different story, though, if the product was misused, the company does fix the problem, and the poster won't be straightforward about it and say so.

Toodles.

[Guest]

Toodles - We don't post on here frequently as the site has become more and more difficult to use, and too many assume things and post without evidence. No samples in our instrument were "reloaded multiple times" at various volume levels. At no time had anyone from Artisan actually inspected the physical layout. Therefore, while not wanting to go into much detail - we REFUTE. Not interested in arguments. The facts are that while the organ is currently fully functional, there are still difficulties which were NOT addressed and we feel strongly that there is no point in doing so, since, as Admin points out in a previous post, the manufacturer's attitude is "we can't possibly be at fault." Further, in response to another post, our tech was as interested in making this work as we were; there was no intentional "botching" of anything. He did EVERYTHING possible at our end. The organ is functional enough for our purposes, but we would strongly caution anyone considering this equipment to have a very experienced tech at their disposal with plenty of time and money on their hands.

[Horseshoe_or]

A quick update on the Artisan sound engine and related equipment: money NOT well spent, and hardware NOT well supported. "Clipping" began almost immediately when the final finishing was done, and Artisan became immediately arrogant and downright combative, assigning blame to equipment that they knew from the outset that we would be using. The sounds are wonderful, installation easy - support is nearly non-existent, as the person in question talks incessantly and a word cannot be gotten in edgewise. Our tech who did the installation, who works with digital organs for a living, has seriously questioned the integrity of the equipment and most certainly the quality of the (non) support. While we have an instrument that is "playable" to a certain degree, any registration above mezzo-forte or the use of the manual-to-pedal couplers produces an horrendous clipping effect. In addition to the initial investment and related expenses, we ruined a perfectly restorable vintage Allen custom organ. Hence, we have a lovely, nearly $7,000 rolltop desk that plays soft music beautifully. We regret that we will have to take legal action to at least recover our expenses. We couldn't - in good conscience - recommend Artisan to anyone on a budget. There's a CRYING need for an inexpensive, easy-to-install system out there - that works. But this is NOT it.

I have had some difficulty dealing with Artisan and would like to talk to you about your experience. Your experience may help me in resolving my issues. If possible, please send me an email at [email protected]. Thanks.

[Admin]

As this thread is nearly three years old, as this member is no longer active and did not provide a public email, I suggest you send him a private message in the hope that he's opted to accept email notifications from the forum. To send a private message, click on his user name.

[Moller Artiste]

I am the original author of this post when my screen name was Pilcher Pipe Organ. I have a 3M pipe/digital with Artisan digital ranks and operating system. I will try to answer questions concerning the Artisan system.

[jbird604]

Moller,

Please post a description of your Artisan equipment and how it is used. I have a couple of DVD's showing some of their instruments but have never seen any of their equipment up close.

I had some personal correspondence with the forum member who had an unsatisfactory experience with Artisan, but I never saw his setup in person. From what I recall, there may have been some failure of communication -- Artisan may have misunderstood what he expected the equipment to do and sold him an undersized setup. Or, he may have misunderstood the capabilities of the system from the start, as far as how many stops one engine could effectively produce. I know his installation was quite complex, including an elaborate capture action, and I was surprised at how little the equipment itself cost, though I think he wound up paying a lot more for the labor than he anticipated.

His intent was to replicate the entire spec of a custom Allen analog classical organ. Best I can remember, he found that the engine became overloaded and went into digital clipping well before tutti. The misunderstanding may have sprung from the fact that the old Allen analog had a relatively small number of true ranks, perhaps only 5 or 6, but they were unified across the organ to produce 40 or 50 stops. The Allen scheme, of course, used the same tone qualities -- diapason, stopped flute, open flute, reed -- at various volume and footage levels to simulate a variety of stops, and that may be what Andersen meant in his explanation.

Anyway, I'm not sure at all what went wrong there, but I would like to hear about your setup and how it performs. The prices on the website look very reasonable, if you can actually replace all the generators of a good-size analog organ with a single Artisan engine.

[Moller Artiste]

John, per your request.

Artisan operating system with pipe drivers and digital ranks.
Three rank Moller Artiste pipe organ with mechanical shades.
Refurbished Allen TC6 (circa 1960) three manual console with 57 moving tabs.
31 digital stops/17 pipe stops. Pedal: 13 stops, 9D, 4P; Swell: 11 stops all D; Great: 12 stops, 3D, 9P; Choir: 12 stops, 8D, 4P.

Divided expression GT/CH/PD and SW with mechanical shades for the pipes/digital expression for digital ranks; crescendo. Sforzando reversible piston and toe stud. Zimbelstern reversible toe stud. Swell sub/super couplers/unison off.

Ten general pistons with toe studs.
SW/GT/CH divisional pistons, 5 per division
4 PD divisional toe studs
10 memory levels

LCD display in left drawer that originally contained one of the setter boards. The display was programmed to show memory level, volume level (GT/CH/PD) and (SW), crescendo level. Power switch is in the drawer.

Artisan recorder to USB stick.

8 channel Artisan sound engine. Allen ADC amps. Allen speakers: 14, HC15; 1, B40; 1, PP3.

Artisan provided the program files for the console/pipe drivers/sound engine.

The Artisan system may be difficult for the beginner if custom features are desired. There is a learning curve to understand how the software works. Once a certain level of knowledge is gained, it’s not too difficult to alter the software for customizing.

I sold Rodgers and then Allen organs for a total of 20 years. Artisan tonal finishing is NOT the same as Rodgers or Allen. To prevent clipping, Artisan digital ranks must play at the lowest output possible. Here is the procedure: Turn amps to highest level possible (most are on 8 or 9). In the software, turn the channel gain up as much as possible. (I set each channel several clicks less than maximum.) Set the volume level for each digital rank as low as possible but still obtain desired output. There is an anti-clip statement in the sound engine software, however, by following the above procedure there is no clipping.

BTW, when I started the tonal finishing I was in “Allen” mode and the digitals were barely playable. They clipped, inadequate output – the pipes were louder than the digitals. When I got into the “Artisan” mode and leveled the digitals based on Artisan’s instructions there is more than adequate output. The amps total 800 watts, and combined with the pipes, there is no feeling of being under powered when I play.

There are 2, 4-channel Lexicon digital reverb units for the digital ranks. When using reverb for the digitals and combining with pipes, it is necessary to turn off the Lexicon pre-delay for the digitals or a hiccupping effect occurs. When the pre-delay is omitted, digitals with reverb and pipes will play simultaneously.