Rodgers 32B musty smell

[DellAnderson]

Having had a short term episode of insanity, I purchased yet another Rodgers organ, this time a <u>32B</u>. Three manuals, 29" wide console (easy fit through most doors, and this one was in near perfect console condition (my primary criteria). According to the seller, it was his music teacher grandmother's pride and joy, purchased in 70's for $10k and always kept covered with plastic. In fact, the plastic covers were still on the two speakers (which appear to be in pristine condition) and the plastic cover of the console was nearby although removed. The seller said the organ moved there in 1970 and hadn't moved since, and it hadn't been played for 20 years. Only thing wrong supposedly was the expression pedals had to be manipulated into just the right position or the sound would cut off. My theory was this would be an easy potentiometer fix and if not, a practical Hauptwerk conversion practice console. It was a bit of a sell to my significant other, but I agreed to get rid of one of the parts Rodgers I have in exchange. That's the good news.</p>

The bad news is, two doors were open to the organ room when I inspected it and I did not notice any smell, but as soon as I moved it into the living room, my partner noticed the unmistakable scent of old wood - the musty smell of an antique store. It is quite strong, too strong to eat in the same room, and just walking by it feels unsafe (especially after going online and researching the cause of 'furniture' + 'musty smell' or 'mold'. I have not disassembled the organ completely, but before purchasing it I did open the back and only noticed lots of dust, no black or white mold. I also am aware that old capacitors can leak and give off odd smells, but this smell does not smell electrical or chemical in any way, it simply smells like old mildewed wood. </p>

My theory is that the seller's grandmother loved the organ to death by covering it and preventing proper air circulation for the wood to breathe. Neither of us want any more mold spores than necessary in our house (we already had a leak problem last winter, now fixed). So I have temporarily covered the organ with a plastic tarp, and plan to put it on the porch in preparation for it's new home in the garage until the source of the problem can be sorted out, fixed, or disposed of. I would like to at least salvage the main console if possible (e.g. to remove all the electronics and seal the inside) given I spent $600 on this thing and it is in beautiful shape otherwise. It would be nice to keep the electronics too, but I wonder if the wooden gates are the main problem.</p>

What I have learned is that if there is odor, most likely it is due to MVOC's (volatile organic compounds) produced by the mold, which are harmless in low quanties. However, where there are MVOC's, there are also mold spores, and these can cause spreading of mold under the right conditions, as well as respiratory problems (including nasal irritation, chronic sinusitis, and often asthma). </p>

There is no way to 'kill' the mold short of burning it. Heat to kill is a scam as are bleach etc. Only removal of affected wood or cellulose fibers can properly disinfect and prevent a flourishing of mold the next time the humidity rises (note, mold spores are everywhere, we are only talking about degree here, and this organ has it in a high degree I think based on the smell).
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My question for this great august list: Do ALL old (40 y/o) organs have this smell? In other words, do I need to buy or build my own brand new console to avoid this nastiness? Or has anyone found a good way to seal the smell (not cover it with fabreeze or bleach etc). (NOTE: It is apparently a fairly well known fact that olfactory fatigue sets in and people cannot usually smell their own organs, but the smell can transfer to clothes and people they visit can smell it on them, so please don't assume that just because you can't smell your organ that it doesn't give off an odor).</p>

Thanks in advance - I have not seen much on this forum discussing the topic, although there was something mentioned about a Hammond in Finland.</p>

New owner of a Rodgers mustiferous odiferous <u>32B</u>
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[handyczech]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



Here are some thoughts after working for a high quality dealer years ago and doing fix-ups now.</P>


Unless this was under water, the organ is not the SOURCE of the smell. Rather, like a sponge, it has absorbed some of the various atmospheres it has been in. When I encounter this, the first step I take is to blow out the inside of the console outdoors, and with the manuals and components unfolded. Then using a solution of ammonia and pine sol (I happen to like the smell) I wipe as many non-electronic internal parts with a lightly dampened rag. Plastic keys and tabs hold odor as well. Using ammonia and dish soap, wipe those down, get between the keys with a thin piece of plastic wrapped with the rag. Clean the outside of the case with Murphy's and ammonia, dry, and use a quality spray polish like Guardsman, wood scent or almond. Leave everything open a while to air out, use a fan, etc etc.</P>


After all this, put an open box of baking soda inside(like a fridge) or some of those jelly pop-up room air fresheners, or even a dryer sheet or two.</P>


My 30 year old Collonade had a bit of musty, but now looks and SMELLS new. Of course, as a final touch, I spray some of the INSIDE wood parts of the case with a shot of lacquer-new finish=new smell.</P>


Regards to you and your ptnr.</P>

[DellAnderson]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



Thanks. I hope this is the case and sounds reasonable, although the organ was only in one place per the seller (and it looked it when we moved it and saw the inches of dust under it). It smells exactly like a musty old antique store with some very rancid old furniture. I've covered it with a tarp in the living room for now and the smell seems to be abating (although it may be olfactory fatigue, I have been outside in the garage working on the other organ which is of the same vintage but smells somewhat better in my opinion).</p>

Anyway, I like the 'outdoors' part and have just the porch to do the work (we have had some crazy weather recently and I don't want to push my luck -2 days sun, 1 day rain - and opening it up will also allow me to find any 'surprises' (I have read online here or elsewhere about literal rats' nests etc. That's all I need. My nose is not educated well enough to be able to distinguish all these various essences, so 'musty' is the best I can do - I have a trunk and old wooden typewriter case from my grandparents that smells similarly so I assumed it was some kind of dry rot that was inevitable for old wood not properly kept ventilated..
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[handyczech]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



I guess I am being mean, but the fact is a lot of old folks' furniture smells the same. They stop opening windows, don't clean as much, basement gets closed up and damp, whole house gets stale. Smell will pass. Push the new arrival to a window, put a fan in there blowing out, and beg borrow or steal an air compressor and BLOW THAT THING OUT! That way the fan will send the dust out the window, rather than drag the whole thing back outside. Send ptnr to the Mall during this process.</P>


After following all the stuff in my email, you might also try a damp chaser-the rod that you plug in that gets warm. Mount it away from other components. Sometimes you can find one in the closet section of a hardware store, home center, but better on-line. A light bulb might work too, a real low wattage, but I don't care for that as much. Warm the inside, drive out the dampness and smell.</P>


I strongly feel that mold, rats, vermin, are not an issue here. If you look too hard for trouble, you will definitely find it.</P>


Blow her out, give her a bubble bath, some make up and perfume and she'll be fine.</P>

[handyczech]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell

OOOPS-Hope Sarah P doesn't see that last sentence.

[DellAnderson]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



[quote user="handyczech"]OOOPS-Hope Sarah P doesn't see that last sentence.[/quote]</p>

lol. You never mentioned lipstick, be we were talking about a bad smell and possibly farm animals!</p>

By the way, your mention of laquer caught my attention. I really think that is a nice idea and as I have done a limited amount of painting (no paint booth currently or even location to do it well) including a 40' bus, I think I could pull it off if necessary. I do have a small air compressor but not all the best equipment that I used before to paint the bus, but I'm most curious about whether you completely disassembled the consoles to paint them, or just masked off the keyboards, exterior, and electronics and sprayed remaining exposed wood... and did you mean lacquer or shellac? That would really give it a nice new smell (if not off gas for weeks).</p>

One of my mold worries was because I have the Allen organ in the same room and one of the best things about it is that is just plain smells good. I don't know if they made it out of cedar or if the church cleaning lady at its former home had a secret sauce, but it is sure nice smelling and I don't want it to get any bad ideas. (BTW, The Allen bench was polished to such a shine that I have to use one of those waffle drawer pads from Bed Bath &amp; Beyond to keep from slipping all over the place when pedaling the higher octaves)
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[handyczech]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



One of the polishers at Lyon-Healy years ago showed me this trick on organs that were selling off the showroom floor after a few months. Yes, this was the 60's and 70's and SMOKING was permitted (and encouraged) in the stores.</P>


If there is a blank area on the case on the left and right sides of theINSIDE of the case (no circuits nearby), he would shoot a few puffs of spray lacquer (spray cans-harder to find, but Lowe's has it ) onto the wood. The lacquer would mask other odor and make things smell "factory fresh"-ahhhhhh.</P>


We're not talking refinishing here-just smoke &amp; mirrors.</P>


Hopefully the cleaning lady on the shiny one didn't use old fashioned Pledge------ugh. Silicone makes things look good for a while. Then................</P>

[Clarion]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



I don't know where you live, but a good prolonged cross-breeze in a reasonably arid climate will do wonders. Take the back off, and allow the breezes to do their thing.</p>

Wiping down the exterior of the instrument with a mild soap like Murphy Oil Soap, might be a good start. And you might be able to address a significant part of the interior at the same time. For the interior, which is probably the major culprit, a wipe down with one of the oxy kind of hydrogen peroxide cleaners , or simply with straight hydrogen peroxide solution.
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And after a good airing and cleaning, further action is needed, the usual restoration procedure commonly used to eliminate odor in homes that have suffered fire damage, is to seal off the stink in with something like lacquer, urethane, or whatever.
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[OrgansR4Me]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell

Dell, I took an organ from a smoker one time and didn't keep it because attempts to refinish the cabinet with a quick fix wood restorer actually degraded the old varnish on one side and nothing would bring back the original rich cherry finish. I use "Bounce" in my laundry and have found it to be a good "odor absorber". Just place a few sheets in key places around the cabinet and bench. Be sure to remove before applying current if placed near wiring.

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



You might try a negative ion generator. But first verify that it will not derange the electronics of the instrument.</P>
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[twnelson]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



Please, please, be very careful using spray polishes (Pledge, etc.) and finishes on and in the console . Be sure the overspray is confined so that it doesn't get deposited on the keying and stop contacts. Overzealous housekeepers and maids were the bane of my existance as a tech many years ago because they would spray the polish directly on the keyboards and stopkeys, and the waxy compound buildup would eventually cause intermittent contact problems.</p>

I always either use a liquid polish or spray the polish on a cloth. Minwax also makes wipe-on liquid polyurethane lacquers that I've used for finish repairs. I've also found that the dryer sheet (Bounce) technique works well, and Murphy's is my favorite general console cleaner for both wood and plastic.</p>

-- Tom</p>

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[Dave S.]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell

Hey Dell, i'mreading about your Rodgers' odor problem and had a thought: look around in the back of the organ for circuit boards mounted perpendicular to the main boards; you may have to swing out the panels to get at them. Many times, there were largepieces of sponge inserted at the factory betweenthese componentsto keep them from shaking during initial tranport, and they're supposed to be removed but often never are. I've found many still installed in old Rodgers such as yours, and they'll often cause playability problemsif they've wicked up a lot of moisture. I don't imagine it would be the sole cause of the pungent smell you're describing but it sure could contribute, in addition to everything else discussed.

[nullogik]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



What an interesting problem. My TC-3S has been out of active service for two going on three years and is held in a secure storage unit. However, it still smells of incense. I suppose it would after having been in the Church for 30 something years! </p>

Thankfully, it doesn't bother me as I like the smell of incense. And besides its not that strong. You don't smell it until you put your nose against the cabinet.
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[DellAnderson]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



That's really a nice problem to have, and an advantage to buying from a church that I had not considered. I think there are likely much worse odors than incense. </p>

My Allen came from a church and it still smells wonderful. It's amazing how much the olfactory sense affects one's relationship to an inanimate object (or an animate one for that matter!) ;-)
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[davidecasteel]

Re: Rodgers 32B musty smell



Somehow, I never associated pheramones and organs (oops, did I say that?).[:$]</P>


David</P>