Replace old Kimball Church Organ with?

[OGC5]

Hi:
Our 100 year old small Baptist Church has an old Kimball that looks about 35-40 years old, big but I don't know the model. Mrs. OGC5 just started playing it and noticed it has issues. My advice was to junk it as not worth fixing since so many organs are for sale cheap here in Florida. Church is only about 65 x 40 ft so I think something like a Lowery MX2 would suffice. Of course a new Viscount would be nice but unaffordable.
Lot's of people here trying to sell Grandma's expensive old toy and coming to the conclusion that the Home market is dead. I am trying to get one of them donated.

Suggestions on models to look for?
Thanks
OGC5

[ggoodesa]

Hi,
If your Kimball is a real Pipe Organ then find a local organ tuner/builder and get their opinion on it before you do anything. There is nothing like a real pipe organ... although some modern electronic organs are getting much closer to 'real' sounding.

If it is an electronic, then sure, see if you can get something donated. Baldwin and Yamahas were better made than some of the Lowery's that I've seen, so perhaps go with one of them. It's difficult to give advice on models as the condition of these older organs differs from house to house...

GrahamG

[OGC5]

Pipe Organ? wish it was.

Hi,
If your Kimball is a real Pipe Organ then find a local organ tuner/builder and get their opinion on it before you do anything. There is nothing like a real pipe organ... although some modern electronic organs are getting much closer to 'real' sounding.

If it is an electronic, then sure, see if you can get something donated. Baldwin and Yamahas were better made than some of the Lowery's that I've seen, so perhaps go with one of them. It's difficult to give advice on models as the condition of these older organs differs from house to house...

GrahamG

Nope it is an old electronic Kimball, our rural church is small. I have been looking at Craigslist and notice many expensive (Lowery) models for sale so that is why I think chances are good to get one free or cheap. Dealers here all had stores in the malls back in the 1980-1990s, sold hundreds to senior citizens with free lessons. When Grandma died the kids thought they had a windfall with the 50K (when new) organ. After a while they come to the conclusion that not much of a market today for a used organ.
Saw an Allen Model # 202-C digital from the late 1970s with an AGO pedalboard, would this be a good one to consider if free?
Thanks for the comments
OGC5

[jbird604]

Almost ANY Allen would be better than ANY Lowrey for most churches because the Allen will be a real church organ, as opposed to a home entertainment apparatus! Having said that, though, I must admit that some of the larger and better home entertainment organs do have a certain charm that makes them desirable for small churches or chapels, especially if the player is a rank amateur and can't figure out how to properly register a real church organ. So, take my advice with a grain of salt.

However, if the old Kimball is a T-50 or T-100, you might consider having it repaired. (ducking to avoid the rotten tomatoes and flames) As much as I generally detest Kimball organs, that series was a triumph by comparison to most other low-cost church models offered by companies like Kimball who were better known for their toy organs. Several independent tone generators including a real celeste, and a stop list that includes complete principal, flute, string, and reed choruses, even mixtures and fully functional couplers. Not bad at all considering they were quite inexpensive and are mostly seen today in small rural churches. The biggest problem with these models lies in the poor soldering on the many circuit boards. We have had good luck making them work by taking the boards out one at a time and re-flowing all the solder where the connector pins penetrate the boards.

The Allen 202-C is a true church model, but is certainly dated in many ways, one of the first digitals, not terribly exciting sound-wise. But any digital Allen is fully supported by the builder, is easy for a qualified tech to repair, and could conceivably last another 20 or 30 years if it hasn't been abused or stored in a bad environment since Grandma died. A classically-trained organist can make one sound quite good with careful registration and playing technique. But an untrained player might struggle with getting a nice full sound from one of these in a very small church, as the early digital generator need a lot of help from good acoustics to really sound pipe-like! (Thus my earlier compromising statement about using home organs in certain situations.)

So, unless the Kimball is a T model, I'd sure lean toward an Allen, and you should get a 202 pretty cheap, if not free. But you probably have a lot of cheap or free organs to choose from in that part of the country.

[OGC5]

Roland AT 30?

I don't see any model number on the old Kimball but Mrs. OGC5 says it has very few sounds available and she is a very accomplished player although not a professional. She can read music plays with both hands (not just cords either) and both feet. The Allen would be a consideration but I have a chance to get a Roland AT 30 at a very reasonable cost. It is small but the sounds are way better than one would think for it's small size. Opinions?
Thanks
Tom

[jbird604]

I'd think the Roland would be an acceptable choice, if cheap enough. That's a good example of what I mean by a "home entertainment apparatus" that actually might sound better than a real "church organ" in a small church where the acoustics might not flatter a traditionally voiced instrument such as an older Allen. The Roland's voices are chosen to be rather impressive and articulate, and have generous digital acoustics so that they sound quite good even to the person sitting on the bench right in front of the speakers. Should sound pretty good to the folks in the pews, provided there is enough audio power to adequately fill the room. (Alternatively, there are handy line-level audio outs to connect the organ to a suitable outboard amplifier and speaker setup.)

BTW, if you connect it to external amps and speakers, you'll be much more pleased if you use separate amps and speakers for the left and right outputs, rather than simply mixing it to mono or running it through the house sound system. But in a pinch you can use the house system if it puts out good wide-range sound and can handle the organ without distortion.

I know one church in my state that has one of those and I find it pleasant enough, and the numerous pre-set "pipe organ" settings are quite pipe-like and enjoyable. There's not as much actual variety as one gets when you have 30 or 40 separate pipe organ stops that you can mix and match at will, but hey, how many organists actually vary their registrations that much?

At least the Roland does have several different varieties of "pipe" sound on each manual, plus all those really nice orchestral sounds to add to the mix. So, if your wife likes it, go for it!

[OrgansR4Me]

Give some thought to a Technics GA3 as well. It has organ selections for theatrical (nice for the prelude) and Classical if desired for the congregational singing. (It actually has 6 organ voicing selections but those are the two best suited to Baptist services). It also has orchestral settings that blend nicely and four octaves of keys on each keyboard. Prices are as low as $500 in my part of Florida now. (East Central)

[OGC5]

Hello Forum;
Well we have been offered various older models (some free) but we have decided to make an offer of $350.00 for a nice old Technics F3 console. We have a nice Technics SX-EA5 at home which has been bullet proof.

[OGC5]

Technics F3 Goes to Church

Hello Y'all:
BTW the old Kimball is actually an old Baldwin (Senile me), which has all kinds of static and noise. One of the Church members said it was about 30 years old and had not been played much in recent years. He did say "What a beautiful piece of furniture, nice wood". I told the Pastor we need to store the old Baldwin a while before going to the recycle bin. Made the analogy about my Wife's parents and their old 6 ft long VM record player console made out of solid wood.
Anyway looks like we are going to get the Technics SX-F3 which should do fine for a rural Baptist Church. I think the old Baldwin was mostly played by Piano players during it's tenure and the congregation seems in awe that Mrs. OGC5 can actually use both hands and feet, read music and not just use chords.
It's a blessing to hear real Church music instead of the Twang of Guitars used in the early morning service.

The F3 should suffice for the growing Church now although not as advanced tech as my Sx-EA5. Perhaps someday we can find a late model actual Church organ when we expand the sanctuary.
Opinions on the F3 are most welcome, remembering that anything is an improvement over the old baldwin.
OGC5-In Flordia

[OGC5]

Technics F3 goes to Church!

Give some thought to a Technics GA3 as well. It has organ selections for theatrical (nice for the prelude) and Classical if desired for the congregational singing. (It actually has 6 organ voicing selections but those are the two best suited to Baptist services). It also has orchestral settings that blend nicely and four octaves of keys on each keyboard. Prices are as low as $500 in my part of Florida now. (East Central)

We got an old F3 Technics in nice shape for $350.00 and donated it to the little Baptist church we attend. Wife played at services today and it sounded great along with the Piano. I was a little concerned that the Technics sound might sound too crisp compared to the old Baldwin sound but it worked well. Mrs. OGC5 even got invited to play some special Christmas music.
OGC5