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  • Allen ADC 4100 replacement battery

    I need to replace the rechargeable battery on our Allen ADC 4100. Does anyone know what battery I should use and where to get one, or rather a pair as they appear to be two AA NiCad's held together by a plastic housing. Thank you!

  • #2
    Get them at Walmart in the section where they sell replacement battery packs for cordless phones (not cell phones, cordless handsets that have the base unit attached to a landline). They are already shrink-wrapped and you may only need to splice in a longer wire. Best to place the battery pack in the floor of the organ rather than mounted on the pc board, for safety in case it leaks.

    You'll need a 2-cell AA pack for the memory board, but also replace the 3-cell pack on the USAV board in the cage. You have to pull the card out of the cage to do this, and again, don't put the new pack on the pc board. Add a long pair of wires and put the batteries in the floor. Bend up a corner of the cage cover to allow the wire to exit without being pinched.

    You may find the battery pack has leaked on the USAV board, and if so, look for a thread on this forum all about repairing the cage and the boards when this happens.

    Good luck!
    John
    ----------
    *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

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    • #3
      Thank you John! Are there any online (or downloadable) diagrams that indicate where the USAV board and cage are? I found the double-pack "tie-wrapped" on the board that is next to the back panel. There are various cages inside the organ. I think there are two on the right and two on the left as you're facing the innards from behind the organ.
      Sam
      -----
      Kurzweil PC88, Yamaha SY99, Roland D-50, EMU Proteus module, Korg 707, EMU SP-12

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      • #4
        Hi John, I found pics of the battery replacement procedure on the adc 4300. I assume the procedure is similar for the 4100? Are the Wal-Mart batteries available in dual and triple packs, and are they in series (2.4 and 3.6v) or parallel?
        Thanks again!
        Sam
        -----
        Kurzweil PC88, Yamaha SY99, Roland D-50, EMU Proteus module, Korg 707, EMU SP-12

        Comment


        • #5
          Sam,
          Yes, Walmart should have both 2-cell and 3-cell packs. Today's batteries are more efficient, so if you see a pack that contains AAA cells instead of AA, that will work as well. All such packs have the cells in series and will provided either 2.4 or 3.6 volts.

          The cage in question is the big horizontal aluminum cage with a flat metal cover and a small hole for tuning. Removing the cover you will see about 15 or 20 cards plugged into a backplane. One of them near the right hand end will be a USAV-1 or -2 and will have a 3-cell battery pack on it. Be sure to always put boards back where they came from because each slot is wired for the particular board it contains.

          I'd suggest very carefully pulling each board, coating the card-edge connector with a one-molecule film of Vaseline, and re-inserting. The rows of mini-pots on these boards are for the various voicing controls, and adjusting them will make rather radical changes in the organ. The "G" ("gain") controls sometimes get intermittent and cause stops or groups of stops to drop out. The cure is to gently turn them back and forth and settle them back to the position you found them in.

          Good luck. The 4100 is a very nice organ.
          John
          ----------
          *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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          • #6
            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
            Add a long pair of wires and put the batteries in the floor. Bend up a corner of the cage cover to allow the wire to exit without being pinched.
            John,

            Nice to see you back, contributing to the Forum again. This, during your busy season!

            I did have a question about the repair you're suggesting. What gauge wire would you suggest using to go from the AV-1 board to the battery pack? Also, I would assume polarity matters when connecting to 2 of the 6 wires that are cut to take the battery pack off the board?

            Great to see you back.

            Michael
            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
            • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

            Comment


            • #7
              Michael,

              Good to be back. Not sure how much contributing I'll do, as I seem to spend too much time on the forum once I get started! (I guess you read my post in the "home organ" section a couple of weeks ago where I told about leaving my long-time church position, which is part of the reason for my not posting lately, just too bummed out at the moment.)

              The gauge of the wire is not critical. I use some 20 gauge wire that I got at Radio Shack that is sold as "speaker wire" though it's too small for any kind of critical speaker usage. It has one conductor tinned and the other one left copper, so keeping track of polarity is easy.

              When you remove the pack from the USAV board, it may be attached to the board in 6 places, but only 2 of the connections are actually "live." The others merely serve as jumpers between the cells. If you take a close look at the board you'll see what I mean. So the two connections to the ends of the string of cells are the two that must be connected to your new wire that goes down to the off-board battery pack. Be absoutely sure that you connect the positive one to the positive terminal (normally the red wire, but test with your voltmeter to be sure) of the new battery pack. The other end of the string of cells will have been connected to a ground pad, and that pad should be connected to the negative end of the new battery pack.

              If in doubt, go ahead and solder your new wires to the USAV board, then put the board in the cage and turn on the organ, but don't connect the other end of the wire to the battery pack yet. You can use your meter to check the voltage at the end of the wires, and the one that carries about +5 is the one that should go to the positive terminal of the battery pack.

              Good luck!
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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              • #8
                This is my first experience with a MDC 25. This organ is also in need of a replacement back up battery. When taking off the back cover, I found the battery but I think someone before me replaced it with a regular CR 123 as it was a photo battery dated 2011and was totally dead. Shouldn't the battery be a rechargeable type?
                Also would like advice on any other batteries that might be in the unit. If there are, please let me know where they might be located?
                This organ came with 4 HR15 speakers. Can anyone tell me the ideal placement of these speakers in its new home as it is going to a small church. The original placement was 2 and 2 high up front in the sanctuary.in corners.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Assuming you mean MDS -25. I don't think any MDC models ever had a battery.

                  MDS and later organs do NOT use rechargeable batteries. So what you need is a standard type 123 lithium photo battery. I sometimes install a different battery, as aging MN-1 boards tend to drain the 123 battery too quickly. I get a two-AA-cell plastic holder and put in a pair of AA-size lithium cells, which produce the same 3.6 volts as a single 123. I mount it off the board and then run a pair of wires to the MN board and solder the ends to the old battery holder. You must be very careful not to damage the MN board, as it will cost you a pretty penny to have it repaired by Allen!

                  If you are having a problem with the battery discharging very rapidly, such as after just a month or two, you can insert a 10K resistor between the positive end of the battery back and the battery holder on the board. Best I can tell, this causes no problems for the board and the piston memories will be retained as normal, but the battery will now last for years.

                  NOTE 1: After replacing the battery, you must go through the "re-initialize" process or else there may be some malfunctions in the pistons and MIDI system. This process is spelled out in the Console Controller manual. Briefly, use SET+R to page through the CC functions, stopping on "Re-initialize..." Press MEM+255 on the generals and the screen will say "Done!" Then use the up arrow to go to the next Re-initialize screen, do the same keypresses. Do this for all the Re-initialize screens that are offered to you. Then SET+CANCEL to exit.

                  NOTE 2: The clock in your Console Controller window probably doesn't keep time any more, but most people don't care. There is a chip on the MN board that can be changed, or you can get a new MN board ($$$$), or just forget about it.
                  John
                  ----------
                  *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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                  • #10
                    Jbird,
                    This is a MDS 25 not a MDC model. Sorry for the typo.
                    This organ has sat in a church for at least 10 years without an organist. I understand that the information you gave me is not in the owners manual but the console controller is covered? This organ did not come with a "Console Controller Manual" so if needed, where do I obtain one?
                    On this 10K resistor, Do I attach one end of the resistor to the positive side of the battery and the other to the holder anywhere or on the positive end of the holder? Did not quite understand what you meant by battery back?
                    Thank you so much for this information. Please let me know.
                    Last edited by Kansas; 10-09-2017, 03:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Most of the Allen organ manuals can be downloaded in PDF format from the Allen website. https://www.allenorgan.com/www/suppo...rsmanuals.html
                      Here is the one for the MDS-15/25 organ: https://www.allenorgan.com/www/suppo...nersManual.pdf
                      It looks like the information you will need starts around page 22.
                      Sam
                      Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
                      Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oops... typo! I meant to say battery PACK, not "back." .... So the 10K resistor needs to be installed between the battery pack and the MN board. So, to clarify, the positive lead from the battery pack is probably going to be red. At the end of the red wire, add one end of a 10K resistor. Solder the other end of the 10K resistor to the point on the MN board where the positive end of the original battery went. The negative lead from the battery pack is going to be black, and you should solder the end of the black lead to the point on the board where the negative end of the original battery went.

                        BUT FIRST........ Since the organ sat unused for 10 years, it may be perfectly fine just to slip in an ordinary type 123 lithium battery into the holder that is already there. If the board doesn't drain that battery within a few weeks, you'll know that the board is still working like new and doesn't have the rapid battery draining issue. Only if the battery goes down very quickly again do you need to worry about the "fix" described above. Maybe you'll be lucky and have no problems.

                        And yes, the link Sam gave takes you to the owner's manual, and beginning around page 25 you can read about the various Console Controller functions. The "restore factory settings or defaults" section is where you find the instructions to do what I was talking about. I'm surprised it doesn't tell you right there in the manual that if the battery ever runs completely down you have to do this procedure.
                        John
                        ----------
                        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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                        • #13
                          Right now there is no battery pack just a metal battery holder soldered to the board which holds one CR123 battery. No corrosion, so do I replace the holder with another type? I have seen the problems caused by batteries on a ADC but this organ is clean! Please clarify. Since I have not worked on a lot of Allen organs, I need a little guidance. here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've never known a 123 lithium battery to leak and damage a board, so I see no reason to tamper with this one if you see no damage at all. After all, that battery has been there at least 10 years (probably, unless someone was really diligent about replacing it!), and it didn't leak even after running down completely.

                            It has been the rechargeable batteries on DM capture boards and on the USCP and USAV boards found in ADC organs that have been terribly afflicted with battery damage. Whenever you see a rechargeable battery still mounted on a board you should remove it. But these 123 lithiums don't seem to cause any trouble. At least I haven't heard of any.

                            I've replaced a 123 with an off-board pack a few times, mostly just because I didn't have a 123 in stock on a service call. But that's not really necessary UNLESS you find that you have the rapid-battery-draining problem. then you will need to use an external battery pack with two lithium AA cells and the 10K resistor, as above.
                            John
                            ----------
                            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What on average should the CR123 be replaced? I understand that the Lithium batteries are good but don't last as long. Is this true?
                              Found all the information on the Console Control in the owners manual. The manual say's that the MDS 15 has demo recordings, is the MDS 25 the same or different?
                              If at some time the reverb needs to be tweaked, can you tell me where it is located? Also there is a plastic or nylon adjustment tool located in the envelope with the owners manual. I would like to know what it is used for?
                              Thanks again for all the information. It's so nice to be able to ask questions and get honest answers.
                              I am very impressed with the quality of this organ and the sound.

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