OK, here's another: anyone know anything about this one?

[toasterDude]

Hey again guys, I just keep coming across interesting stuff, but unfortunately I don't know enough yet to tell what's really worthwhile and what isn't. This one is described as a digital sample-based 1995 Wurlitzer...

I thought Wurlitzer went under in the 80s, though - ? Is this perhaps like the later Baldwins, where they rebadged Italian imports?

Asking price is $2500 on this one, so I have a feeling it's not such a great deal.

Thanks for any info!

[m&m's]

You are right in your assumption that this is indeed a rebadged Italian import. I remember when they came out, and they were not bad organs soundwise. But the organ market has progressed a lot since then.

$2500 is definitely too much for one of these, even from a dealer. A thousand would be more reasonable.

MIke

[Clarion]

I believe the later Wurlitzers were made by Viscount. They sounded pretty good compared to the analogs we were accustomed to hearing in those days. If I recall correctly, they were not noted for high quality or reliability.

[arie v]

Hi,

You are correct in believing Wurlitzer went under in the 80s. Baldwin bought up the trade name, and flogged low end pianos (by Samick I believe) and organs made by Viscount, as well as some grandfather clocks all with the Wurlitzer name on it.

The particular model named here, is the C-300, a first generation digital church organ from Viscount. Basically the technology was reverse engineered from the Galanti Praeludium series. The sound was good for the day, and actually very good through a pair of good headphones. Through internal speakers the sound was decent. Generally they sounded worse through external speakers, as absolutely no voicing could be done. The basic tonal design was unmistakably European, so if you liked German sounding organs it would suit. The organ has a very basic MIDI implementation, which is not much use for running the various virtual organ programs out there.

This C-300 had little wooden pull stops which worked and felt like reed organ pull stops. Actually the console was quite elegant to look at.

The downside of this model was quality and reliability. The 5vDC line on the power supply usually gave trouble as it ran too hot. Many an organ of this vintage by Viscount ended up in the landfill because of this. Bad design. Also, pedalboard was not very good. Most of the control pots were of a very cheap variety and will need replacing.

Baldwin sold these organs from 1989 till maybe 1991.

For a fully working specimen in excellent cosmetic shape I would say the thing is not worth more than $1,000.

Just remember too, this organ was sold by Baldwin 20 years ago. Even when Baldwin was still around, they had problems with parts and support on this and other similar models. Unless Norm Ninneman at Viscount Tech Services actual has one of these organs as a test set, and has gotten a stash of parts for them, repairing these can be a challenge.

I am currently working on a job where I am gutting one of these types of organs, and changing it over to a Hauptwerk organ. The organ still worked fine, but the owner wanted something better, as in a 3 manual Hauptwerk setup.

If the casework on these is good, they can be re-used quite nicely for a virtual organ setup.

AV

[toasterDude]

You are correct in believing Wurlitzer went under in the 80s. Baldwin bought up the trade name {snip}

Thanks! You guys are amazing. Follow-up question about Wurlitzers: I've had the pleasure of hearing one of their early electrostatic reed types. I was highly impressed by what sounded to my inexpert ears, to be a dashed good impression of a pipe organ! So:

1) what does anyone else think about the ES Wurlitzers? Am I too easily impressed, never having had the chance to play a real pipe organ?

2) did Wurlitzer, i.e. the original Wurlitzer company in NY, make any AGO consoles after the (ES) 4800 in the 1950s? I see a lot of free and very cheap Wurlitzer consoles from the 1960s -- mostly look to be electronic -- but never any with full 32 pedal clavier, and never with liturgical stop selections.

thanks again-
td

[Ursa]

I've not heard the electrostatic Wurlitzers myself, but they seem to be held in high regard for good sound.

After the electrostatic models were phased out, Wurlitzer did make a solid state model 4700 with AGO pedal clavier. Some quick Google searches failed to turn up a stop list, but there are a couple of YouTube selections featuring the 4700--though the registrations used are, well, dubious. Looks like there are more stops available than on the 4300/4500.

[OrgansR4Me]

I have a 4700 32 pedal Wurly organ that needs a few repairs and a 4735 that was a 25 home model. I'm very pleased with both. Got the 4700 through a friend for free and the 4735 for $75 at Goodwill. Both organs have Spectatone which can be played for theatrical tone or Cathedral. On Cathedral speed you can play some very believable classics. You'll not find a better practice instrument in a 1970's instrument.

[Ursa]

OrgansR4Me, would you be so kind as to post a stop list for the 4700? I'm dying to know if there's 4' and 2' pitches and/or a Great to Great 2' on the great manual, and if there's a great-to-pedal coupler...I might have to swap out my 4300 for a 4700 if they are so equipped.

I fully agree regarding the Spectra Tone; on Cathedral speed with Chorus engaged and the reverb cranked up a bit, the 4300/4500 can be quite believable on the classics that can be performed on them. I imagine the 4700 series would do even better.

[toasterDude]

Wow, thanks. The 4700 sounds like a formidable console indeed. I actually found one for sale, though it's too far from me (see below).

It's located in So. Carolina, asking price $800 if anyone's interested:

http://greenville.craigslist.org/msg/2042238431.html

Too cool!

td

[toodles]

Ursa,

I don't have the 4700 stoplist in front of me, but the Great did have Octave, Flute, and a string at 4' pitch. There were no Great couplers at all, but the great did have flutes at 2-2/3, 2, 1-1/3, and 1 ft. pitches. Likewise, the SW had flutes at 2-2/3, 2, 1-3/5, and 1 ft. pitches. In some ways, the 4700 was a more theatrically voiced organ than classical,, or at least more of a romantic interpretation than true classical. The Great had no reeds at all and the organ had no mixtures. The pedal pitches stopped at 8'.

The only couplers were from a select group of 8' voices on the Swell--not the full swell division.

I have a stoplist which I can scan if people are interested.

The general design of the 4700 is very nice looking, in my opinion.

Toodles.

[Ursa]

I'd really like to see a stoplist on the 4700; it would be interesting to compare it to the 4300/4500. From your description, this organ was clearly an evolution of the 4300/4500 but there were some trade-offs made in the design of this model. A full complement of harmonic flutes on both manuals would be quite welcome, but I would dearly miss the Great 4' coupler and the very useful Trombone 8' stop on the Great manual. The omission of a Great-to-Pedal is disappointing.

[toodles]

4700 Stoplist

I'd really like to see a stoplist on the 4700....

Ursa, I have a flyer for the 4700 in good condition & can scan it, attached.

The Great on the 4700 had NO reeds at all, but a full set of diapasons, strings, and flutes.

The couplers were: Swell to Swell 16, Unison Off, 4; Swell to Great 8, 4; Swell to Pedal 8. These were effective only on the Swell Diapason, Concert Flute, Salicional, Oboe, and Vox Humana. There was literally no way to get a 4' stop on the pedal. Wurlitzer must have been going after the evangelical church market rather than any church looking for a fairly classical sound.

Toodles

[OrgansR4Me]

Apologies, I didn't see the above thumbnails. I copied the following from my owners manual.
Wurlitzer Concert Model 4700 Specs: ( Voices are labeled red and black for alternating controls Solo tabs increase volume on pitches named )
Pedal: Solo 16'; Diapason 16'; Bourdon 16'; Gedeckt 16'; Violone 16'; Solo 8'; Octave 8'; Flute 8'; Clarion 8'
Swell: Solo 16'; Diapason 16'; Bourdon 16'; Bass Clarinet 16'; Solo 8'; Gedeckt 8'; Aeoline 8'; Viole 8'; Diapason 8'; Concert Flute 8'; Salicional 8'; Reed Accent; Oboe 8'; Vox Humana 8'; Clarinet 8'; Trumpet Sonora 8'; Solo 4'; Octave 4'; Orchestral Flute 4'; Violina 4'; Upper Ranks Accent; Nazard 2 2/3'; Piccolo 2'; Tierce 1 3/5'; Fife 1'
Great: Solo 16'; Diapason 16'; Violone 16'; Solo8'; Open Diapason 8'; Geigen Diapason 8'; Dulciana 8'; Stopped Diapason 8'; Gamba 8'; Solo 4'; Octave 4'; Flute 4'; Salicet 4'; Upper Ranks & Chimes Accent; Nazard 2 2/3'; Piccolo 2'; Larigot 1 1/3'; Fife 1; Chimes
Reverb: On/Off Rheostat/Length & Intensity
Vibrato: On/Off Speed - Slow/Fast Depth - Normal/Full
SpectraTone: Red Organ Black Organ Chorus (speed) Normal/Cathedral
Pistons: (Upper I II Cancel) (Lower I II Cancel) (Pedal Cancel)
Sustain: Pedal -- Medium Long; Swell -- Red Organ Short/Medium/Long Black Organ 16', 8', 4' {combined} Great -- 16', 8', 4' {combined}
Couplers (Red Organ): Sw to Sw 16'; Sw to Sw 4'; Sw Unison Off; Sw to Gr 8'; Sw to Gr 4'; Sw to Pedal 8'

[OrgansR4Me]

The brochure doesn't completely capture the magestic size of this console IMHO but that's a lovely picture. Your information on the cabinet controls was missing from the chart I copied. Very interesting. Thanks Toodles.

[Ursa]

Thank you so much for the 4700 stoplist. For an AGO-spec practice organ on a budget, this could be just the ticket. Based on my experience with the 4300, the sound should be quite satisfying.

If a 4700 turns up around here--and the price is right--I might have to make it my own.