Shaw Organs - a blast from the past

[arie v]

Hi,

As some here know, I service organs, mostly electronic, for a living, or for most of it anyway.

Lately, I have serviced a number of organs, analog in nature, in churches, that have huge numbers of audio channels.

One manufacturer that went to great lengths in terms of audio was Shaw Organs from Burlington, Ontario (Canada). I doubt that we will see the like of this kind of design again.

Neil Shaw was the designer of these instruments, and he built up ranks much like a pipe organ, the manual ranks having 13 audio channels. Pedal ranks had only 1 channel. Although they were glorified unit organs, the overall effect was very additive. Basically, his concept was a speaker should only have to deal with one tone or pitch at a time, and only rarely have to double up. In other words, intermodulation distortion does not exist in his concept. Amazing thinking really, and I'll bet quite expensive too.

Anyways, I found a few You Tube videos of his organs. The following are links,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWi2g...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNB3I...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a735...eature=related

Remember, these organs have well over 200 audio channels, and the technology is 1970 vintage. Organs have no fake reverb, the rooms do not have reverb, and recorded using analog recording medium. I'm sure the original recordings sounded better than the You Tube versions.

In many ways, modern digitals would have trouble competing with these old instruments, unless they had a huge speaker compliment.

I have also worked on large AOB organs and a large Saville. These organs all had attention to detail regarding the audio system.

Just thought you might be interested..........................

AV

[Admin]

Thanks, I had not heard of this builder before.

So each rank had thirteen channels. Were these allocated one per note, ie, all C's to their own channel, D's to another, etc. or were they divided in some other way like in half octaves? I'm also curious as to the power output of each of the channel amplifiers.

Unfortunately the YouTube recordings provide no clue as to the aural advantage of this high degree of channelization.

[arie v]

Hi,

Best way to describe the channeling, is as follows, I will establish the pattern, and you can see from there.

Channel 1 C1, C#2, D3, D#4, E5 etc.
Channel 2 C#1, D2, D#3, E4, F5, etc.
Channel 3 D1, D#2, E3, F4, etc.
Channel 13, C2, C#3, D4, D#5..............etc.

This is done for every manual based rank. Pedal ranks only had a single speaker, and some of them were rather novel. On the 32' and 16' reed rank in the pedal, he had a flared wooden pipe, open at each end, and had 2 8" speakers mounted at the smaller end, facing inward. Man, does that stop ever bark. Similar to a pipe reed resonator effect.

As to amplifiers, they were 8 watts for the manual stop ranks, and 60 watts for the pedal channels. No significant cross-overs in the design, so everything was running at a very high efficiency.

AV

[michaelhoddy]

I think this goes a long way to confirm the idea that presenting the sound to the room through as many discrete channels as possible has more of an effect on the "realism" of an electronic organ than does the actual sound-producing technology. Yet it is the latter which gets the most attention and catches the whims of most shopping churches. AOB, Saville, Classic, and a few of the older custom Allens have proved this time and time again for me.

[Clarion]

The Shaw Organ saga is a rather heartbreaking story. A church ordered a new Shaw Organ; and you know the way it goes . . . when dealing with a church, a handshake agreement, was enough for Neil Shaw to go ahead and purchase $85,000 in parts. In 1970 $$$, that was the equivalent of three new three-bedroom bungalows or 25 new Chevys!! Part way through the project, the church (of :devil:) changed their mind, and summarily cancelled the deal. And that was the end of Shaw Organ; they were forced into unrecoverable bankruptcy!! :-( And all of us have lost something significant because of that horrific event. Shaw instruments were absolutely amazing: thirty years ahead of their time.

Shaw published this brochure around 1971. Instead of playing the numbers game, their specs tended to be rather modest, with 7 independent ranks in the Great, 7 in the Swell, and 4 independent ranks in the pedal . . . and 175 independent audio channels and speakers.

[arie v]

Clarion,

I don't know where you got the story of Shaw going bankrupt, because I have never heard it. In any case, Shaw produced organs till about 1985. He continued in business for many years after that building basic pipe organ switching systems and combination actions. In fact, he can still provide the pipe organ stuff if you really want his equipment.

Mr. Shaw is alive and well.............I talked to him this morning.

AV

[Clarion]

I don't know where you got the story of Shaw going bankrupt, because I have never heard it.

I didn't say "Shaw" went bankrupt, but "Shaw Organ". Hopefully, the company was set up as a limited liability entity, shielding Neil from total devastation.

My information on the Shaw Organ failure must go back about thirty years to the mid eighties, long before the days of internet. So I would figure that in all probability, the information came from either Henry or Clarion.

In any case, Shaw produced organs till about 1985. He continued in business for many years after that building basic pipe organ switching systems and combination actions. In fact, he can still provide the pipe organ stuff if you really want his equipment.

Mr. Shaw is alive and well.............I talked to him this morning.

Building pipe organ switching systems etal, hardly compares to the magnificent no-compromise organs he once built.

I have enjoyed the Shaw organ uTube offerings you provided. This is the first time I ever heard a Shaw Organ, and they are totally unbelievable!!

Are there any Shaw Organs still still in operation??

[Menschenstimme]

In the early 1980s, I ordered a 73-note Darlington-driver board from Reisner. They said that they got it from a Mr. Shaw in Canada. I imagine that it must be the same Mr. Shaw being discussed herein. Said board is still going strong and has never been repaired. Thank you, Mr. Shaw!

P.S.: While typing the first copy of this posting, I got a "time out" on this Forum for the very first time since the new Forum has been up and running! SIGH!!

[arie v]

Clarion,

Well, if Shaw organs did ever go broke, it's a strange thing I have never heard of it. I doubt he went broke in 1970 though, as it was around that time that Mr. Shaw came out with his Concept Organ. I'm sure that I would remember if the company went broke in 1985. The oddest time Mr Shaw would come to Classic where I worked, and a bunch of us would go for lunch together.

The 2 Shaw organs I recently serviced were Opus #53 and #54, both from 1983. I think he may have built a couple more organs after that.

Mr. Shaw's early organs had a plate on them identifying them as Shavian Organs. Generally not good sounding. His Opus 28 from 1970 was his first large custom concept organ. It was installed in a church in St. Catherines, and I replaced it with another instrument. That instrument ended up in Mr. Shaw's church in Burlington. I suppose he rebuilt it, and fixed it all up, and it is still there today. That organ is on one of the You Tube videos.

I don't know how many Shaw organs are still around, but can say that I have serviced at least a half dozen in the last 5 years. I have serviced the one in the brochure located in St. John's UC in Georgetown.

I suppose in the early 1970s, there would not have been anything as good sounding as the Shaw in terms electronic tone production. Later in the 70s, AOB was formed, and they produced some pretty incredible sounding organs for their time.

AV

[radagast]

Clarion,

Well, if Shaw organs did ever go broke, it's a strange thing I have never heard of it. I doubt he went broke in 1970 though, as it was around that time that Mr. Shaw came out with his Concept Organ. I'm sure that I would remember if the company went broke in 1985. The oddest time Mr Shaw would come to Classic where I worked, and a bunch of us would go for lunch together.

The 2 Shaw organs I recently serviced were Opus #53 and #54, both from 1983. I think he may have built a couple more organs after that.

Mr. Shaw's early organs had a plate on them identifying them as Shavian Organs. Generally not good sounding. His Opus 28 from 1970 was his first large custom concept organ. It was installed in a church in St. Catherines, and I replaced it with another instrument. That instrument ended up in Mr. Shaw's church in Burlington. I suppose he rebuilt it, and fixed it all up, and it is still there today. That organ is on one of the You Tube videos.

I don't know how many Shaw organs are still around, but can say that I have serviced at least a half dozen in the last 5 years. I have serviced the one in the brochure located in St. John's UC in Georgetown.

I suppose in the early 1970s, there would not have been anything as good sounding as the Shaw in terms electronic tone production. Later in the 70s, AOB was formed, and they produced some pretty incredible sounding organs for their time.

AV

Never heard of this organ maker before. Sounds good.

[mrdc2000]

Arie,
Thanks for bringing up this builder, it brings back memories.
We attended a dedication service for a new 2m Shaw installed at an RC church in Hamilton Ontario about mid 70's is my best guess. The performer was an Englishman named Cook.
We were much impressed at the sound, far superior than the A or R companies were producing at that time and no doubt it was the many channels with "a wall of speakers" that made it good.

[Guest]

I didn't say "Shaw" went bankrupt, but "Shaw Organ". Hopefully, the company was set up as a limited liability entity, shielding Neil from total devastation.

My information on the Shaw Organ failure must go back about thirty years to the mid eighties, long before the days of internet. So I would figure that in all probability, the information came from either Henry or Clarion.



Building pipe organ switching systems etal, hardly compares to the magnificent no-compromise organs he once built.

I have enjoyed the Shaw organ uTube offerings you provided. This is the first time I ever heard a Shaw Organ, and they are totally unbelievable!!

Are there any Shaw Organs still still in operation??

The church I go to ,St John's United Church in Creemore, Ontario has a Shavian Organ, Series C Opus 21. It was installed in 1970 and does not have the individual audio channels of the latter Opus 28, but was all we could afford at the time. It has been perfect for our needs and required very little service. I have an electronics background and have replaced one transitor in a tone generator circuit and the wirewound controls on the swell pedals. It seems to be performing the same as when we got it.

[robmcginn]

I am always quick to point out, ad nauseum, that You Tube is not the venue for judging an organ but, that said, those 3 videos show me a nice instrument by a builder unknown to me untill now.I grew up in the west end of Toronto. Given analog technology, the Shaw organ sounds pretty awesome indeed.

[paulj0557]

It's nice hearing the outcome of placing analog electronic organ voicing in individual speakers, even though it's easy to dismiss these concepts now because the same approach is used for separating digital voicing in Hauptwerk and such. I was anticipating hearing what might be the 'ultimate analog electronic classical organ', but the verdict's not in yet...my ears are still trying to digest it. Where it's a given I like the electronic tonality I'm hearing ( blame it on years of electric guitar), it's a little odd hearing such refinement and separation, but it seems to work in a good way!

To convert a Shaw to Hauptwerk...ah' that is the question.

Don't you touch that organ! X-(

[Jan Girardot]

Greetings, all;

If the Shaws interest you, may I suggest you join our Electronic Organ History Group @ Yahoo? (PaulJ is one of our earliest members) In our Shaw album you will find the Shavian 22, inside and outside, along with an ad from 1971. you can subscribe by sending a blank email to [email protected]

. . . Jan
the OrganGrinder