Baldwin Church Organ Model ID Help, Please

[Larrytow]

Hi all,

This organ is in a church nearby, that is wanting someone to play it for them. I am considering if that should be me, since they are getting along with only piano right now ( and the pianist, although very good, says she can't play organ at all - way too different !) . I have not tried it out as yet, but, considering the stoplist, I don't expect to be impressed with it. As far as I can see, it only has internal speakers. There are two amphenol style sockets on the rear of it that I would figure are for external speakers. It has two manuals and a 25 note flat radiating pedalboard. I have no issues switching between different types of pedals, so that is no concern. But, the winky pedal spec with no Gt to Ped coupler is a concern. It has a transposer on it, on the right side cheek block that is a series of push buttons. It has 3 general pistons that I figure must be factory presets. I could not find an ID plate on it, either on the back or under the keydesk. Did not get a chance to look inside, because they had stuff on top that I did not want to move right away.

I guess what I would like to know from the collective experience here, are these things :

What exact model # is this one ? And what age / era is it from ?

What sort of tone generation is it ? I would figure analog Top Octave divider style ?

Does anyone own one, and how does it do for liturgical music ? Or, has anyone had to play one in a church ?

Anything else about it that would be good to know ?

I recently moved from a bigger city to a small town in the country, and the organ situation in a lot of churches here is pretty bleak, as far as nice instruments go. Lots of churches looking for organists though ( wonder why ? ! ) , so I don't need to play for this particular church. I do however like the folks there, and the building is old and beautiful, in a country sort of way. They just had their many Large stained glass windows restored over the last 3 years, so they are not really poor by any means. I suppose if I start playing for them with this organ, a fund drive for a nicer one is not out of the question.

Regards, Larry

[james]

This Baldwin is a 700 Series, and I think a 720 yet not totally sure. It is the upgrade of what used to be a spinet model with only 2 or 3 added stops as well as 2 full manuals and the 25 note pedal board. It is an analog transistor organ from the mid to late 70's. I have played some on this model at a dealers back then, and I have heard one in a church. I wish the church I played in for a number of years would have had a nice Baldwin or Conn Church organ in lieu of the old percussive Hammond C3. It was surely out of place for our type of worship.

I would go for it since it can play church music quite well, and since you like the people is another reason to play for them. That is what it is made for to be a chapel organ. I have a Baldwin 48C which is a larger console, but the sound is basically the same. I think you will like the variety of tones you can acquire from this organ. The Chimes are nice as well as the other two percussions.

At least it is a start, but do remember many churches are giving organs away or pushing them in a corner for the Praise bands.

[myorgan]

This Baldwin is a 700 Series, and I think a 720 yet not totally sure. [snip] It is an analog transistor organ from the mid to late 70's.
[snip]
The Chimes are nice as well as the other two percussions.

The organ may be from the late 1960s. I remember playing one when I was in high school in the 70s, and it was an older organ at that time (had been there for a while). Could it be tube? I seem to remember it taking a few seconds to warm up?

The chimes MUST be nice! Did you see them on the wall? I'd love to have a set like that!

Michael

[james]

Baldwin made several organs that looked almost identical. However, I know about this one since I had a service manual on it. I know the arrangement of the stops as well as their names. It is a transistor organ.

I noticed the chimes on the wall, and they must be a separate unit which will sure sound realistic. However, the organ has a chimes preset for them to be played on the organ, and not the set on the wall.

Michael, you might have played a 46C which was from the 60's, and they were very nice organs. I thought when I was in hs that the 46C was one of the most beautiful church organs I had ever seen for an electronic. The Baldwin dealer was near the hs for many years.

I have the 48C which came out in the late 60's, and mine doesn't look like this one at all. I am sure you played a 45C or a 46C which are both tube analog organs. My 48C and this 700 series are transistors.

[Larrytow]

Thank you both for your prompt reply's ! Yes, I noticed the wall chimes. They play from one of those mini keyboards attached under the lower manual. It's on the treble end, but I did not get it in the photos. I'll have to fix that though, to get it back to functional shape, as one of the keys is stuck down on it.

After doing some searching in google photos, I had thought maybe it was a 711 or 720. Thanks for verifying that. They really would like to hear it played again in services, so I'm not too worried about a praise band taking over at this place. The thing that concerns me is that it will not have enough snot / volume to effectively lead congregational singing. The church is actually as wide as it is long. Sort of a cross shape. So with just console speakers firing at my knees, with it up front like that, I'm not sure it is up to it. Or, perhaps it is ? I am pretty spoiled I suppose. The church I just left to make my move to the country had a very nice Allen Q325. And of course, I have an Allen ADC6000 in my living room .

I'll be meeting with the pastor sometime this week, so I will know more at that time.

Another question just occurred to me. Do either of you know if the pedals are polyphonic or monophonic ?

Thanks again, Regards, Larry

[mashaffer]

I would see if you can give it a try for a few weeks and see how it goes. It may be fine as is.

It is probably not too difficult to add some external tone cabinets if that proves necessary. If you need tone cabinets on the cheap you may be able to scrounge many of the necessary parts for free. Old organ consoles that are given away free every day and most have perfectly usable speaker drivers (most with surrounds that will last for a lifetime). Cabinets can be made from small bookcases picked up at thrift shops or garage sales and either refinished or painted gloss black. If you need amplification just salvage the amplifiers from the free console from which you get the speakers. A quick recap and possible replacement of a few of the carbon composition resistors and you are all set. If you have a little bit of money to work with then there are some pretty good deals these days on moderate to low power professional amps which all would have plenty of power for these kinds of speakers and that is where I would spend the money.

mike

[james]

I played on my Baldwin a bit this AM, and the pedals are monophonic. I need to practice more, but since I only play at home these days I often find other things to do such as listening to youtube. I am also sure the organ is a top octave divider organ which uses the square waves format in tone generation.

I like Baldwin for church music, and do enjoy the 48C, but it is the 58R that I really enjoy playing on with the slow tremelo or no kind of tremelo or vibrato. If you play a flute stop it is a stopped flute sound which sounds "clarinety" in the older Baldwins. Baldwin has it loyal fans as well as those who prefer something else.

[myorgan]

Michael, you might have played a 46C which was from the 60's, and they were very nice organs. I thought when I was in hs that the 46C was one of the most beautiful church organs I had ever seen for an electronic. The Baldwin dealer was near the hs for many years.

Thank you for the clarification. I know I'm getting older now, and perhaps the brain/memory are getting addled, but I thought I remembered the organ I played looking something like the photo.

Now, I'm just curious which model they had for sure. I played/subbed in several churches as a teen, and remembered the organs, but was so new I certainly can't remember the model numbers--I'm lucky to remember the makes!;-)

Michael

[indianajo]

T. The thing that concerns me is that it will not have enough snot / volume to effectively lead congregational singing. The church is actually as wide as it is long. Sort of a cross shape. So with just console speakers firing at my knees, with it up front like that, I'm not sure it is up to it. Or, perhaps it is ? I

Thanks again, Regards, Larry

An organ of that age will be producing 1/2 to 1/4 the power it had when new, due to dried up electrolytic capacitors. These are not expensive to replace, but it needs to be done for the unit so sound anything like it did new. It happens in twenty years, so any other organ you buy will be that many year down the pike to needing this done. The parts cost would probably be under $100 to do this, and before buying more worn out cabinets, I would get the one in place working correctly. Newer organs with more features have custom displays, custom integrated circuits or other tricks that are sole sourced from the manufacturer. This organ will have nothing but inductors and contacts that are not sold by any electronic distributor. The contacts in these are precious metal, I believe, unlike many modern instruments that use conductive rubber pads.
If you are willing to do it yourself, we would help you learn how. Like mowing the lawn, it is kind of a mindless process. However, if you want, you can get on mitatech.org and look for a tech in your area. Most pros prefer to change 1 or 2 caps at a time and come back another day, which is a great way to make a living but not a way to get any kind of reliability out of a 25 year old unit. My second 1968 organ was professionally maintained and had 4 new tubes, but no new caps. The first one I bought had 3 new caps in 97, probably due to the motor cap burning the wire harness. (Baldwins don't have motors). I put 70 new caps in that one, your organ might need fewer. My recapped organ and my entire sound system except the speakers and turntable are over 40 years old and sparkle with newish caps, but people are really prejudiced against old electronics for some reason. Have fun with your new congregation.

[james]

Do remember any vintage organ will not work such as it should when it was new. They will all need some kind of attention technicial wise. It is good advice in the above posts on here.

[Jan Girardot]

"(Baldwins don't have motors)"

Hmmm...what drives that thing called the Baldwin Leslie?

. . . Jan
the OrganGrinder

[james]

The chorus control on my 48C is certainly driven by some kind of motor for that slow tremelo effect.

An eccentric couple who attend the church mess I grew up in bought one of the first home Baldwin organs, model 45H2, which had 25 pedals, and no locking top. The lady mentioned to me one day when I was very interested in organs spoke up and said, "if you ever play a Baldwin you won't have anything else." Therefore, Larry, give this opportunity a chance. It could lead to something really nice.

[toasterDude]

Here's a nice write-up about Baldwin models over the years. Perhaps it will be of help as you assess just what you have with this particular old Baldwin:

http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/ken...gan%20Page.htm

Note that the article says "[Baldwin] also developed a series of gradual-contact key contacts to eliminate key-clicks and imitate the pipe organ’s slower attack and decay characteristics." I've never had the pleasure of playing one, but I wonder if this feature might've helped to build the kind of brand loyalty mentioned above. I can see where someone more accustomed to the attack of a real pipe organ could be frustrated with the instantaneous attack, and intrusive key-click, of some early electrics.

[Jan Girardot]

The Baldwin copywriter who authored that conveniently forgot the first electronic his or her company produced, the Model 20. It was a photocell design, introduced in 1950; it turns out the technology was somewhat flawed and Baldwin ended up replacing most of them with Model 5's. The last I heard, there was still one in Israel.

. . . Jan
the OrganGrinder

[james]

I played a Baldwin model 5 for several years in a church. It was so different that a Hammond, and was a very nice church organ. As mentioned in the article it was Baldwin's first in 1946. The one I played on had a very low serial number.

I understand that Baldwin made the photocell organs, and then just went on to come out with the model 5A. That first theater organ the HT2 is one fantastic organ. There was a spinet verison of a theater organ which is loaded with features,