Re: What's your opinion?

[M1994]

I concur. The sound quality of all is probably rather similar, so yeah, 3 manuals, you'll be happier with it.

[soundboarddude]

Re: What's your opinion?

I have played several Johannus organs and have been rather pleased with them. However, the Opus series are the "lowest" quality organs that Johannus makes. They make very fine organs indeed, even all of their opus organs are very nice, but the opus organs are the cheapest.

The Galanti organs are nice as well. There is a Galanti organ at FUMC in Lewisville that is set up very nicely. Although there wasn't space or money for real pipes, they did spend a good amount of money on the organ. Each division has its own set of speakers, and thus the organ sounds very convincing. However, if you don't have a suitable speaker set up, I don't believe the organ would be anywhere near as nice.

Although Galanti organs have very convincing stops, it's a wide varity of voices. None of the stops sound different at all. The flutes, for example, have different tones and ammounts of "chiff" to them.

The Galanti at FUMC is always having problems though. We discovered that the SW division was somehow connected to the light power source, so if you were having problems with the SW, you just pull the plug on the light (which is why we have another light on the console). Also, every once in a while the SW and GR divisions like to like not play a few notes, so you'll be playing along and you'll notice that some of your notes are gone. Now, keep in mind this organ is about 15 years old... still...

The Johannus organs, however, seem to be the exact opposite. The Johannus organs are built like tanks. A friend of mine sells Johannus organs for a living, and has a Johannus Sweelinck 10 that he's taken everywhere... a Baptist convention in Grapevine, another convention in San Antonio (where it was used to accompany a choir and an orchestra), and now is temp in a church in Corinth. Not a scratch. The organ is in great condition and plays perfectly. I would say the quality is a little bit less than the Galanti, and the stops sound more the same than on the Galanti (which is what I like actually).

Depends on what you're looking for. As for the "feel", I prefer the Johannus organ.

Oh yes, and the Johannus has better sounding reeds... (in my opinion)

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

Soundboarddude said:
> However, if you don't have a suitable speaker set up, I don't believe the organ would be anywhere near as nice.

I agree 100%. I started working on electronic organs 35 years ago so I have some experience. I also have done some work on a number of pipe organs. Every electronic organ from any manufacturer that I ever though sounded pretty good had lots of speakers and usually quite a few amplifier channels. I always pushed people with a budget to buy the next lower cost console and put as much money into the speakers as possible. Salesmen frequently said, oh buy the larger console now and add extra speakers later, but nobody ever did that. So the clients weren't as happy with the results. In cases where we did get an adequate amount of speakers, the clients were not only happier, but so were future prospects looking for organs.

The first priority should always be to get an adequate amount of amplifiers and speakers.

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

Yes, I have always felt that the best installations are when there are adequate speakers and enough channels for the sound. Steve, since you repair electronics, have you had any experience with these two brands? Which would be the most reliable? I will be going to hear and play the 3 instruments in question next week. If they all sound similar, it may be a toss-up on the purchase. I just dont need one that's gonna be a headache to maintain. I am nt interested in Allen, due to the fact that Allen is the only electronic in this town, and I would like something different.

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

Dan,

May I add some other (admittedly technology-biased) info to this chain?

I would question the installations in any case where a church is having continual
performance issues:

- the electrical installation must be AT LEAST as robust as specified by the builder--
almost all manufacturers specify their instrument should be on a circuit by itself,
ESPECIALLY in a church where amplifiers are pushed towards their rated output
(not quite that critical in a home)
- I would NOT use foam-surround speakers, but insist on integral fabric cones
( the foam gives great transient response, but is short-lived in high-impact service)

I believe you will have no significant service problems in a HOME installation with
any of the candidate instruments. Please know, though, that my home Rodgers (a 60s 990,
about 30 numbers past Black Beauty) is on a separate 20-A circuit by itself, and
isolated through a 1500-W UPS (I do not intend to play it during a power failure--
I want clean, static-free, surge-suppressed power to the console/amps). Oh well, that might
be my engineer side talking......

And, may I re-inforce Steve's point--speakers sufficient for the room (and *I* would not own
a foam-surround woofer for a musical instrument under any conditions!).

Your resulting installation should be a low-impace, low-maintenance instrument that should
last for many years.

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

Thanks DW, for the excellent advice! (Thanks to everyone else too). As this is a home installation, the number of external speakers I can squirrel away in various spots will be somewhat limited, but I was planning on surge-suppressing the circuit that the organ will connect to, just to be safe. I also agree on the foam-surround speakers issue. In the chemical-rich air here, foam self-destructs far too easily. I will check that out on these instruments. I don't plan to drive the volume up all that loud anyway, as I am buying this as a practice machine, for the most part.

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

My only experience with Johannus was back in the 1970s, they had just started importing them, and they weren't very good. Divider type analog electronics so very little "ensemble" sound. But the worst part was that they were very poorly made. Most of the service calls were mechanical, things just never quite lined up physically causing all sorts of strange problems. But I think they are better made now, and of course everything is digital, so my experience means very little. I have seen a couple of Galanti organs, they seems ok, but I have never been inside one, or even playedone for more than a few minutes at a convention.

Don't think that a home installation doesn't need adequate speakers! Remember that a piano is not "turned down" or voiced any softer in a home than on stage in a concert hall. Acoustics does really funny things. I set up the Black Beauty Touring Organ in over 100 locations including a classroom about the size of an average living room. That organ has easily accessible volume controls, 10 of them, one for each channel, and oddly enough they were set the lowest in the very largest stadium it was in. That was for a Southern Baptist Musicians Conference at the old Atlanta stadium. They had a 3000 voice choir (miked!) and the organ sounded magnificent, especially for the Hallelujah Chorus from the Messiah. On the other hand, in a small room, it was turned up much louder.

I helped a former Rodgers employee install an extended 990 (Festival Trumpet and added 32' stops) in a single-wide mobile home that also had a grand piano in the living room. The subwoofer filled the space under the piano, and there were 7 more speaker cabinets located around, here and there. It was wonderful, and definitely NOT overkill. Be sure you have reverb.

Steve

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

No Steve, I don't mean to imply that I am not interested in good sound reproduction..... it's just that I have limited sapce if, for example, an instrument comes with a dozen gargantuan speaker cabinets that I have to conceal somehow. I plan to listen very critically to all three organs before I plunk down my money- have no fear!

[soundboarddude]

Re: What's your opinion?

Another example... I have extremely nice speakers on my Kurzweil Mark 12i digital piano. (It was priced higher than the Technics instrument that supposedly had "more features" - not true by the way). Now, I don't usually turn up the volume full blast (unless I'm just simply in a i-need-to-turn-the-volume-way-up mood). But, I'm glad I have the full system. In the times that I do turn it up, it shakes the floor! A digital piano!

The organ at First Baptist in Lewisville has an Allen 600 something or other. I used to practice there quite a bit, until I got my own organ. Nice organ, but they never let me play it through any of the big speakers. Always through the little monitor speakers on the console. Any time I even just had a principal chorus, or fonds 8' 4', 2', the speakers would shake! And you could hardly hear the four 32' stops.

Anyways, I certainly understand the "no space" issue. Simply, get the nicest speakers you possibly can fit. You'll be glad you did when you hear it when it's installed. Like it was mentioned earlier, hide it under a piano or something. I've seen subwoofers hidden behind lounge chairs in the corner before as well. Even if you can't get all the speakers in there, well, you can get the best sound of the organ that you possibly can.

Don't settle for an instrument because it simply has 3 manuals. Get the organ that feels the best to you, and you feel has the nicest sound and a stoplist that you like. (If they're all the same, then get the bigger one!)

Good luck in picking the right organ! Keep us posted on which one you decide!

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

Well, I came, I saw, I bought!

This past Friday, I received a call from the owner of a music store about 50 miles from me. I had told him of my quest for a home practice instrument. I was planning to go to South Carolina to look at the three instruments I mentioned in my original post,(a Johannus and two Galantis) but Mr. F, as I'll call him, persuaded me to meet with him before my trip. He had two organs for me to consider at his store. I met him on Sunday, which was the only day I had available, and he opened the store just for me. How's that for customer service!

The first instrument was a used Viscount. As soon as I began to play, I nearly left skid marks on the bench in my effort to get away from that thing as fast as possible. It was God-awful, not to mention it appeared to have been poorly maintained by the church that had owned it. The Viscount was NO-count!

The second instrument was new- a Baldwin (Church Organ Systems), which was made by GEM. I loved the keyboard- a matte-finished off-white affair that had the feel of real bone keys. It was the last one he had, as Baldwin and COS had declared bankruptcy and gone out of business. Of course, I wasn't TOLD that.... I had known it from surfing the 'net. As good as the keys felt, that was the end of the love affair. Tonally it was disappointing. It sounded VERY artificial, and despite the extremely attractive offer Mr. F made to get it off his hands, I knew I would soon tire of the sound, and I was concerned about parts availability and service issues.

Perched between these two was another organ. I asked what it was. "Oh, that's the new entry-level Rodgers Insignia. Well, I decided to try it just to see what Rodgers was doing these days, since there are so few in this area (Allen has the electronic market sewn up here). Now, whenever I try a new instrument, I always try out the great 8' principal alone before using any combination of stops. Electronic organ manufacturers have done a pretty good job of recreating flutes, and do a nice job on reeds, and the strings can be good, but they have never been able to produce a convincing principal, IMHO. I was in awe of the sound of this thing! Not only were individual stops very good, but the ensemble was very pleasing. Of course, I was not prepared to buy a new instrument. Then they hit me with the clincher- They gave me a great price, paid the tax themselves, and offered to deliver it no charge. When I added it up, it was pretty much even with what I was going to be spending down south, once we figured in gas, tolls, hotel, trailer rental, etc., and I would still have had a used instrument with no warranty. Because Galanti, GEM, and Viscount are all essentially made by the same conglomerate, I felt that what I would be hearing in the SC organs would be as disappointing as what I heard locally (remember, I was looking at older instruments which were not the most up-to-date technologically) I was hooked. Thank God for home-equity credit lines! Now I can even deduct the interest from my taxes! ROFL

They delivered it today at noon. I spent the next 2 hours on the bench, trying out all the features, I think I made a good choice, all things considered.

Thanks to all of you on this forum who gave me the benefit of their sound advice!

[radagast]

Re: What's your opinion?

>Because Galanti, GEM, and Viscount are all essentially made by the same conglomerate,

>The second instrument was new- a Baldwin (Church Organ Systems), which was made by GEM.

Actually I am pretty sure that:

1) Baldwins were rebadged Viscount organs and
2) Ahlborn-Galanti, owned by GEM, is a separate company from Viscount

Anyway, which model Rodgers did you get? I was very surprised recently to find out the a Rodgers Insignia 577 (two manual with drawknobs) could be bought for around $12,000.

[Guest]

Re: What's your opinion?

I bought the 537

BTW, Radagast, you're absolutely right. I stand corrected. Viscount and Galanti are separate companies. What confused me is that both companies trace their origins back to Antonio Galanti, but evidently one segment of the family carried on the Galanti name, while the other segment formed Viscount. I just assumed (incorrectly) that they were still somehow connected.

Yeah, I loved the look of the Insignia 577, but they did not have one. Organs wherever you are must be more reasonable than they are here. The 537 was listed at OVER $12,000.

The only thing that bothers me about lighted drawknobs is their resemblance to Keno boards! LOL

[M1994]

Re: What's your opinion?

lighted drawknobs bug me....but if I was paying, and it saved me a bunch of bucks, it would bug me less. Good choice sir. It should serve you as a practice instrument real good. Not sure on the quality of those consoles (if it's made in Italy like my church's C-440, then questionable, but nothing's really fallen apart yet...needs some new felts in the pedals, and the set and cancel buttons fell out once each) Otherwise, I'd love to have one of those.

[radagast]

Re: What's your opinion?

>lighted drawknobs bug me....but if I was paying, and it saved me a bunch of bucks, it would bug me less. Good choice sir. It should serve you as a practice instrument real good. Not sure on the quality of those consoles (if it's made in Italy like my church's C-440, then questionable, but nothing's really fallen apart yet...needs some new felts in the pedals, and the set and cancel buttons fell out once each) Otherwise, I'd love to have one of those.


According to Rodgers, the Allegiant line is the same as the Insignia line, but the consoles are made in Oregon by Rodgers. Although I don't know from experience, that is supposed to mean they are better built.

[M1994]

Re: What's your opinion?

Yeah. I've heard good thing about Rodgers consoles, so I won't knock em till I tried em. They look real nice too, so it's all good.