Needing help to select a New Church Organ

[OrgansR4Me]

Hello, I was just catching up on forum threads and following with interest your progress. Unless you view a few of the instruments like Viscount on You Tube you'll probably be in the dark about European thought on Tone. After the long time you've enjoyed the romantic tone of the T15 your expectations may be towards a more american sound.

In the long run you are correct that a new instrument is a wise choice. There are eventual service costs that will greatly increase the purchase price of a used organ -- unless it is secured from a dealer and comes refurbished and waranteed.
Thanks for keeping us posted. Alot of us have been watching the lauch of the new theater package at Allen. Has anyone furnished you with information on it. On the Allen owners group there has been alot of sentiment that this is going to be a great church instrument.

[OrgansR4Me]

Just thought of you when I saw a late model organ in southern N.Y. state. Don't know if you'd want to do a private party pick up but here is the auction link: http://www.--------/itm/Allen-Organ-...item41626a036a

[HaskellBass]

I'd really encourage purchasing a three manual MIDI organ console from Classic Organ works in Canada for use with Hauptwerk virtual Pipe Organ. This is the path I have taken, and I consider Hauptwerk sample sets to be superior to anything Allen or Rodgers can create, and it costs a fraction of what those two charge. Here's a sample of what it can do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6MPquYmRnI

[OrgansR4Me]

Absolutely a beautiful instrument but the question comes to mind, "Is this the music style of your congregation?" If you plan to use the instrument mainly to accompany congregational singing the cathedral/classical voicing may not be as important. Certainly the organist would be challenged to move from the T15 to todays digital alternatives but that may be just what you want to achieve in your acquisition. Let us know more about your sound preferences. On the Allen owners forum some have mentioned never sold previous models that are still available at reduced cost. The same may be true of other brands. Discuss your budget and seek options with any dealer you contact.

[toodles]

Personally, I would advise against the Hauptwerk approach for a church. If the person who puts it together isn't available when something goes wrong, the church has no organ.

A late model used organ that still has plenty of life is a good investment for a church, without paying the really high prices of new instruments.

If you look at the European imports in person, you'll see where the costs have been reduced--mostly it is in mechanical components and woodworking. If their voicing appeals to the church, there's nothing wrong with them--I just would not plan on having an organ that lasts 30 to 40 years. Going with an Allen or a Phoenix, you'd probably get 30 to 40 years of life out of the instrument. I can't say much about Rodgers because I'm only familiar with their old analog organs in any detail. Some of their mechanical work doesn't seem up to that of Allen's work, but some seems fine.

Even Allen has cost reduced some of their components from that of a decade ago.

Toodles.

[PianOrgan]

Hello all, just a quick note to bring you up to date on my research for our possible new instrument. I spoke with our Phoenix rep (Bob O'Neill) on Saturday, and he said that he would get our church measurements (35 x 56 feet) and the other items to Canada. It looks like I may lose the pedal 32' due to limited space, but so be it. I do want a quality instrument for our church. Some folks mentioned the Hauptwerk system, and my feeling on that is that it is more of a home installation rather than one for a Church. Granted, it is very cheap, and the sound quality is there, but I can't see myself using a touch screen system. As of now, I have narrowed the companies down to a few. Allen may be out of the running due to cost. Their CF-15 (II manual instrument) is priced at around $36K, and their III-manual is around 10K more. Rodgers doesn't seem to appeal to me, cost-wise or with variety of stops. Viscount seems WAY too cheap for the type of instrument, which puts up a red flag for the long run. I believe I saw about 20K for the Vivace 90 Deluxe (3-manual instrument). The only ones that remain are Johannus (I would lean toward their WM-47 LDS, which is a loaded 2-manual instrument) and Phoenix, who I am waiting to hear the results from the preliminary visit. The Phoenix models which I am looking at are the 243 and the 345, both of which are tab-stop consoles. Stay tuned for more....

PO

[Benchkey]

Usually I don't put down the competition, but I must caution you on Johannus. We have serviced several in the Western New York area, and they have been truly problematic.

If you purchase an instrument, be sure that it comes with a factory electronics warranty of 10 years, and that the warranty is on the organ, not the original purchaser.

[Clarion]

The only ones that remain are Johannus (I would lean toward their WM-47 LDS, which is a loaded 2-manual instrument) and Phoenix, who I am waiting to hear the results from the preliminary visit. The Phoenix models which I am looking at are the 243 and the 345, both of which are tab-stop consoles. Stay tuned for more....

I would be interested to know the price difference between a 243 and a 345. I believe the difference is minimal . . like not much more than the cost of an extra keyboard.

I bought my Phoenix III/44 way back in 2008; and to this day, four years later, I am just entranced with this instrument on a daily basis, as the day it was installed. Going for a 344 instead of a 345 was a big mistake! The missing stop was the chimes/carillon. Not that I can't re-assign chimes over to one of the midi tabs, or anywhere else on the organ for Christmas. The entire organ can be completely reconfigured to any kind of setup you desire!!

[Snowbandit]

The church I got my Rodgers from, back around the first of the year, had bought a new Ahlborn Galanti with an entire sound system. I spent several hours helping with the heavy lifting and didn't get a chance to hear the AG after it was set up but it sure looked like a nice unit. I've heard comments about how they're going to wish they had the Rodgers back but I'm doubting that. The A-G might be worth a look if you have a dealer in the area.

[myorgan]

PianOrgan, any updates on your search? It'll be interesting to see how things work out for you. Please keep us posted.

Michael

[PianOrgan]

Hello all!
Sorry to keep all of you in suspense on my organ search, but I believe I have the right instrument for our church (or at least the right company). If our church decides to get a new organ, my suggestion would be a Phoenix organ. They are great to deal with and as Clarion has been mentioning all along, will virtually bend over backwards to make sure that you get the right organ for your needs. The model is still in question, although I am leaning toward the PT 243. To answer Clarion's question on his last post, the console price quoted to me for the 243 was $30,000. They quoted a price of $38,000 for a 344 and $42,700 for a 347S (Stops in Side jambs), again, these are only console prices. Now to convince our congregation to join the 21st century and get rid of our Ancient Allen!!

PianOrgan

[mridlen]

Personally, I would advise against the Hauptwerk approach for a church. If the person who puts it together isn't available when something goes wrong, the church has no organ.

Then again, this runs over MIDI and a standard high end computer. You could probably hire your neighborhood geek to fix it for you, vs. requiring someone with technical organ knowledge. If the person who sets it up is you, you would probably be best qualified to fix it. Maybe there are more organ techs out east?

[RUSSK]

Hi: I haven't been on the Organ Forum for a while. I have to say that I play 2 Allens each Sunday. My church has an AP-4, (I have an AP-3 that I bought on Ebay a couple years ago to have at home), the church across the street where I also play has an Allen Protege C-16. It is very similar to the AP4, but about 5 years newer.

They both came from RM Sides. The AP-4 install sounds the best, but the acoutics in our church runs rings around the other church. The C-16 install sounds kida dead, but the room itself is really really dead. They have carpet on the rear wall, thich carpet on the floor.

2 weeks ago, The Presby church in Northumberland had their dedication recital for an Allen DB-36. I was really really impressed. Sounded wonderful.

Just thought I would add my 2 cents here, since I'm not that far from you.

[don60]

I know Pete Sides, the current owner of R.M. Sides Family Music. He is not a trained musician per se, but he has a real ear for voicing. He drove me around to two or three of his installations in the Williamsport area, one of which was a small Chapel series organ and the other a large Renaissance. The former sounded wonderful, the latter so good that I honestly was not sure whether some of the still-visible pipes from the old organ were playing. (It turns out they were not sounding--the pipes were all a facade so to speak.)

On a personal note, I have to say that Pete and his salesman were very helpful and gracious during my visit, knowing full well that I was just trying to get some help with setting up my eBay Allen and would not be buying new from them. Pete is an example of what all Allen dealers should be. And yes, I have tangled with one or two of the opposite variety and know the difference.

Don

[RUSSK]

I know Pete also, and they have always been very good. The Renaissance you are speaking about is probably the one about 2 blocks from their store. I was there for a Carlo Curley recital last year, and the instrument is very good. When we purchased ours, the salesman was wonderful, and actually did the dedication recital and did the voicing. We have been very happy with it, (except that I still would much have moving tabs instead of the Lumitech selection, but maybe since I learned on a Moeller 1940's and a Mudler-Hunter 1900's, it is still embedded in me). We get a lot of compliments on the sound of ours. Hope you find something you like. When we purchased ours, we had 2 others there selling their wares, the one was a Baldwin, and we heard every possible story what was wrong with Allen, Rodgers, and why the Baldwin was better. He gave me a headache. We also looked at an Ahlbourn. I wanted the Allen and finally won out, due to quality of build, service (Sides) and sound.