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Looking at an Allen Protege AP-2 for our small Church (seating for about 150)

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  • Looking at an Allen Protege AP-2 for our small Church (seating for about 150)

    I've been looking this forum over and over and it led to our Church looking closely at a 1998 model Allen Protege AP-2. We had our musicians play it and they seemed impressed with the Organ. It looks in outstanding condition and we could really not tell a difference between the new units in the showroom and this used Allen. That being said - I have a couple of questions..

    What New Allen Organ would be comparable to the Allen Protege AP-2.

    What did the Allen Protege AP-2 sell for new (in today's dollars)

    What do people feel it is worth now in excellent condition like described above

    If we were to purchase a newer model Allen that is comparable to the Allen Protege AP-2, what could we expect to pay

    We do plan to add the MIDI 32 Allen Ensemble capability to the used Allen Protege AP-2 and would want the capability in the new Allen as well.

    We are open to other Organ Mfg's and models - The Allen Protege AP-2 just happens to be available within a 20 minute drive. Thanks in advance for everyone's input.

  • #2
    I don't have the information you desire about price comparisons but organs devalue just as quickly as cars and I think you would be saving substantial depreciation with the organ you've located. The fact that it is close and hopefully well priced is a combination you're not likely to beat. You can contact Allen for pricing information. Since you are anticipating purchase they would be happy to hear from you and may have some used instruments for you to consider as well. Last I knew the protoge line wasn't changed all that much. They have good information for you to review on their website but no pricing.

    See http://www.allenorgan.com/www/products/l5/l5.html or link back to the home page to set up other options in the broader Protege line.

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    • #3
      The AP-2 was the smallest (I think) Allen at the time. Nice sounds for a smaller room, the only real liability for "serious" organ work may be the princess pedalboard I think it has. I've seen a few of them go for $4000-$6000 over the past few years, depending on condition/accessibility and whether there are accessories or external speakers included.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the feedback - We have the option to purchase a New Allen Organ Model CF 2A for about 50% more than the used AP-2. I am not really sure how the two compare when sound, quality, etc are taken into consideration as they are from different era's.

        I know the CF 2A can have the Assistant with 500 Pre recorded hymns, Record/playback and remote control or 254 Voice Midi ensemble can be added easily, but as near as I can tell, the AP-2 can have that option added too - just not sure if it is as plug and play as the CF 2A appears to be. The extra $3600 may push it outside the range of what our small Church is planning to spend. Any suggestions and insights would greatly be appreciated. I'd really like to hear what the experts believe the +'s or -'s of each are. Thanks in advance everyone.

        What I have found so far:
        -AP-2 uses the Allen Keyboard with wooden keys while the CF 2a uses a purchased Fatar Keyboard
        -AP-2 has limited tuning via board level potentiometer while the CF 2a is software tuned using proprietary Allen software.
        -AP-2 will not have the Allen 10yr warranty - what are the odds the warranty is needed?
        -AP-2 uses MDS "W5" technology - not sure what the CF 2a uses yet or which is better

        Still digging for information as time permits...
        Last edited by Sbeckwith; 05-29-2012, 09:19 AM.

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        • #5
          A friend who is an Allen dealer says the W5 tone generators are extremely reliable. Personally, I'd recommend the Allen Keyboard over Fatar.

          Generally, tuning isn't an issue with digital organs unless you are wanting historic temperaments. Personally, I'd go for the AP-2.

          Toodles.

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          • #6
            I’ve been following this thread and need to put in a few observations. It seems to me that buying a new organ over a used one is a better idea if the price differentiation is only another 50%. The Allen factory warranty on a new organ is for 10 years on parts, a long time. The AP-2 won’t have this and doesn’t have the voicing capabilities of the newer organs. And too, the keyboard won’t have key velocity sensitivity which means that MIDI orchestral voices will be playable, but not necessarily controllable. I would check with your dealer(s) to see if they put any type of labor warranty on their newer organs. Some Allen dealers will do this. And remember, just when and if you need the warranty, you won’t have it on a used organ. To me, better safe than sorry is a good way to go. Just my two cents worth.

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            • #7
              If you are considering usefulness of modern add ons you are getting a good offer on the new instrument. The price considerations are made in the keyboards which are purchased rather than built in house. (Same company that is making the portable keyboard keys) As Toodles, my personal preference are for Allen Keyboards. I have an old Allen awaiting repair but they are a joy to play and carry the same prestige as having been built by America's premier church organ builder. (No offence intended to Rodgers Fans).

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              • #8
                Thanks Organs and Toodles, A couple more questions I've not been able to verify yet:

                Does the AP-2 have touch sensitivity or expression control on the keys so when the MIDI is being used that can be taken advantage of. I was told the CF 2A does this, but could not confirm it by looking at Allen's website.

                Does the CF 2A handle the MIDI better than the AP-2 - Are they the same interface on both models?

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                • #9
                  Hi Sbeckwith! Please refer to my prior post regarding keyboard touch sensitivity. "the keyboard won’t have key velocity sensitivity which means that MIDI orchestral voices will be playable, but not necessarily controllable.

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                  • #10
                    As a member of the Allen Organ Group on Yahoo, I've never heard any owners mention a touch sensitive system on an Allen. While trying to keep up with MIDI interfaces Allen's whole intent is to preserve their reputation as a genuine organ and not a glorified keyboard. The installation of the Fatar keyboard is a cost control measure only.

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                    • #11
                      You might want to take a look a the Roland Classic 330 or 380. Far more stops and features and new technology versus at least 10 year old if not older technology. Comes with four stop choices per stop, 104 assignable pipe samples in the LCD menu, extensive voicing, velocity sensitive keys, onboard record/playback, USB technology for software updates and expanding the number of memories to 540 levels (has 20 levels built-in)

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                      • #12
                        Hi,

                        The biggest problem I see with the Roland C-330 and 380 is they are essentially European models. They do not come with an AGO pedalboard, and the Manual I (Great) and Manual II (Swell) stop locations are reversed on the stop rail. If in North America, I would recommend the Rodgers variants over these models simply because of that. Other than that I don't have any problems with the Roland models. Some people find it difficult to adjust to a different pedalboard or things being in the wrong location.

                        AV

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                        • #13
                          Sbeckwith, make sure you ask the dealer lots of questions. In our recent search I found the price difference between the Chapel Series and the Protege to be insignificant, with the Protege being the better quality instrument. We ended up with the Roland C380. I am just learning pedals and I really don't seem to have a problem with switching between the Roland at our church and the Casavant Pipe Organ :-> that I get to play for my lessons, even though the Casavant is an AGO pedal board. As far as the Europeon style, we were told that the ManI and ManII designations could easily be switched, however, we left them as is because we had been playing it for a few weeks and became used to the arrangement. Aesthetically, I don't like the cabinet... it's a fake veneer that looks and feels like Wal-mart furniture, but it doesn't have an effect on the sound. Sometimes, so many choices in stops can be a problem. Decisions, decisions....

                          LCO

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LCO View Post
                            Sbeckwith, make sure you ask the dealer lots of questions. In our recent search I found the price difference between the Chapel Series and the Protege to be insignificant, with the Protege being the better quality instrument. We ended up with the Roland C380. I am just learning pedals and I really don't seem to have a problem with switching between the Roland at our church and the Casavant Pipe Organ :-> that I get to play for my lessons, even though the Casavant is an AGO pedal board. As far as the Europeon style, we were told that the ManI and ManII designations could easily be switched, however, we left them as is because we had been playing it for a few weeks and became used to the arrangement. Aesthetically, I don't like the cabinet... it's a fake veneer that looks and feels like Wal-mart furniture, but it doesn't have an effect on the sound. Sometimes, so many choices in stops can be a problem. Decisions, decisions....

                            LCO
                            The cabinetry is awful on those Rolands for sure if it's anything like the "Rodgers classic keyboards" of old.

                            I fully agree on the pedal-board too. I started my lessons on an AGO Casavant (http://www.uquebec.ca/musique/orgues...nnipegkuc.html), and my teacher arranged for a few practice sessions a week on this:
                            http://www.christlutheranchurch.mb.ca/organinfo.html
                            Flat 30 note pedal board on the latter. It was invaluable to be able to do both, and I feel my pedal technique would have been less versatile, especially having visited Europe twice in the past 2 years. I had 0 problem switching to unusual pedal-boards.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks everyone - We made an offer on the Allen, but it was not excepted, so we are still looking. We currently have a 5k budget to work with, so we will be looking for something that does not exceed that.

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