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  • Newly acquired ADC-3160

    Greetings all,
    I recently acquired an Allen ADC-3160 from a Church that no longer had an organist and needed the space and money. I played it for about 45 minutes and everything worked fine (Captures, Stops, Alterable,…). It had the key for the capture memory, but no key for the roll top.
    I’m in the process of setting it up in my home to use as a practice instrument. It came with 30-40 different voice cards. The card reader works fine and reads all the cards. I’m quite happy with it. I believe it has been “modified” to let me plug in headphones. I’m currently using the headphone for the time being. It also came with 4 Allen speakers (HC-14–F-2). They even have sequential serial numbers. I had several friends help me so the move went well. None of the speakers were damaged when we took them down from the wall shelves. I pulled off the “grill work” and the speakers seem to be in excellent condition. I took a look inside the console and it appears to have been well maintained (The battery for the capture board looks okay as does the capture board. There is some minimal dust inside which leads me to believe it’s been vacuumed from time to time.
    I have a few questions that I hope someone can answer for me.
    1) I’m assuming that I can adjust the amps, since I don’t need to fill that large of a space anymore. There appears to be four dials, I’m assuming that’s the amp control for the four channels?
    2) From reading the notes posted here there seems to be a secondary “voicing” volume control for each of the stops. Am I reading things correctly? How would that be done?
    3) During the removal process I cut the speaker cable bundle that came out of the console. There were 9 cables in the bundle. Since I only have 4 speakers I’m assuming that when the organ was installed they ran some extra cables? Do I just need to trace them back to get one for each channel?
    4) I understand it has limited midi capability (key on/key off type). I’m assuming I can also direct it to either the great/swell/pedal? Also where is the midi connection? I guess it must be somewhere inside the console. Any recommendation for a midi program to use, like cakewalk? Are there any midi files available to use?

    Thanks for your help

  • #2
    Hi,

    Quicky answers here.

    1) Yes, the organ is a 4 channel organ, and those dials are output level controls.

    2) Being an ADC organ, there are voicing controls, but not for every stop. Controls are grouped to control about 6 stops.
    It is a compromise, and a bit tricky to get it right, but generally it is workable.

    3) Sounds like the cables were meant to run 4 main speakers, 4 antiphonal and a bass boost. You may not have picked up all the speakers belonging to the organ. When you hook up your speakers, make sure you hook them up to the main speakers terminals. The antiphonals would go thru a relay first.

    4) I'm not sure that organ would have MIDI on it. At best it was an option. If it does have MIDI implementation, you will likely find a MIDI board in the organ. MIDI connections are usually found under the key desk by the knee board. It is possible that they can be found inside somewhere.

    Sorry, my answers were not shorter.

    AV

    Comment


    • #3
      Search old threads here from posts I made regarding an ADC-1140, which has an identical tone generation system but only 1 2-channel amplifier. You can even split that organ into 6 channels if you really want to. May be overkill for a home install, but could make a church install really rock. A neat thing to do is to take the Gt & Pedal directly off the tone generator, and no longer have them under expression. (on a real pipe organ, of course, the GT & PD are almost never expressed.) Then, run the alterable outputs onto the jacks on the mixer board where the GT/PD had entered. Therefore, the "GT/PD unenclosed" tab really becomes "alterables unenclosed", and the GT/PD expression pedal would only affect alterables. This allows, in my opinion, for a more flexible use of that division. But YMMV. In my opinion, medium sized electronic organ sound less realistic if the entire organ can be put under expression. (The alterables would normally express with the swell on those organs. But certain interesting registration effects can be done by having the floating/coupled division express separately from the division coupled to. This was done by Erik Suter on a National Cathedral recording once...he coupled a sesquialtera and altered the expression of both the flute and the harmonics through the course of a melody line. It creating a really interesting effect...almost similar to what you could do with a lo-pass synthesizer filter.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the pointer. There are several voices on the swell, and a few on the pedals, that are barely audible. Mo matter what channel I play with. I guess they all belong to the same "group"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kharrington View Post
          Thanks for the pointer. There are several voices on the swell, and a few on the pedals, that are barely audible. Mo [sic] matter what channel I play with. I guess they all belong to the same "group"
          Most Allen installers placed documentation in a plastic sleeve inside the back of the organ. In that documentation would be:
          • A cage chart--Showing which voices are controlled by which card inside the rectangular cage in the back of the organ.
          • A warranty.
          • A voicing chart--Which tells how to voice the organ on the cards in the cage (NOT Alterable cards) so it sounds the way it was intended at the factory.
          • First, however, you'd need to set the amplifiers where they were set coming from the factory (a small red mark on the dials).
          If you do not find these documents in the back of the organ, in the bench, or elsewhere, perhaps you should ask the church if they have them in their files and could mail them to you?

          From your description, it sounds as if the speaker channels were doubled, and you had a compliment of 2 speakers per channel, OR you have Antiphonal speakers as Circa 1949 said. A look inside the organ at the other end of the speaker wires you cut (with photos) will help those on this Forum advise you more accurately regarding your exact needs.

          Congratulations, and enjoy your new instrument!

          Michael
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

          Comment


          • #6
            Kharrington:

            If you can't find your voicing chart, send me a PM--I have one and can scan it & email it to you.

            Also, the 3160 can be mixed down to 2 channels by some DIP switches on the mixer board. I don't recommend it, but it is possible.

            Toodles.

            Comment


            • #7
              Nice organ you got there, congratulations ! You got good advice from the others already, so I can't add to that. But, if you want to get a key for the roll top, find a good hardware store ( the kind that still has a key machine and blanks, and someone who knows how to run it ) and tell them you need a key for a Chicago Lock roll top lock Key # 2260. They might have a chart that tells them how to cut it without the original being present. I suppose locksmith would be easier, but more money.

              I have found that Allen used that lock on a LOT of their roll tops, perhaps all even ? That key fits my ADC6000, my MOS1 301-B, an MDS-41-S I just visited, and my churches Q325.

              It's sorta fun to surprise church secretary's when I drop in to check out "their" organ, and just happen to have a key for it !
              Regards, Larry

              At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Larrytow View Post
                I have found that Allen used that lock on a LOT of their roll tops, perhaps all even ? That key fits my ADC6000, my MOS1 301-B, an MDS-41-S I just visited, and my churches Q325.
                Larry,

                I've found the same to be true of a Quantum as well as my 2 ADC and 1 MOS-2 organs. I guess Allen figures that if one is dedicated enough to have a key, perhaps it's OK. We have to admit, the key is to keep most curious church members out, though.
                Originally posted by Larrytow View Post
                It's sorta fun to surprise church secretary's when I drop in to check out "their" organ, and just happen to have a key for it !
                So I'm not the only one to do that?=-O

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                Comment


                • #9
                  Michael,

                  I found the Chart (Voices by control group) It seems that the voices (Clarion 4’, Terz 1-3/5, BlockFlote, Quintaten 16, Gedackt,..) are the ones that need to be louder. It appears they are on the TG-3 Board Channel 2 (TR9B and TR40B). I’ve also attached some photos.I imaging there are some resistor pots to aadjust the volume on the tr9B and TR40B??
                  I looked on the amp dials are there are no red marks on any of the channels.

                  Thanks for your help and advice! Not sure what those 4 unused cables in the fourth pic were for.



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                  • #10
                    The boards in your photos do not look like the ones in my ADC6000. I'm not sure if the 3160 uses a different setup than the 6000 or not though.

                    On my 6000 you need to swing a panel out to access the actual card cage assy. Then you need to take off the several ( forgot how many ) 1/4" head sheet metal screws that hold the back cover onto the cage housing. Then you can see all the boards, and the small adjustment pots on them. They are well labeled, so following the voicing chart is pretty straight forward. They only need Small adjustments. Sometimes if they stay in one place a long time, they get a dirty spot, and just moving it back and forth, and landing up in about the original location, brings things back to normal.

                    As far as the extra RCA cables in there, I see they have the factory labels on them yet, so you should be able to find the other end of each one to see where it goes to / comes from.

                    As I said, the 6xxx models and the 31xx models may be some different, so this may not be the case on yours. I will defer to those who know more.

                    Michael, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who carries an Allen key around with me all the time ! You just never know when you may get an opportunity to play an installation that you have not before. When I am out doing things ( going to different towns and cities for various reasons, etc. ) I like to stop in at any neat church I see, just to see them, and of course, play the organ if available.
                    Regards, Larry

                    At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The 6000 and 3160 use different tone generators, so they do look different.

                      The tone generators in the 3160 are protected by an aluminum screen (sometimes called a cage), and the voicing adjustments are on those boards. This cage is not to be confused with the ADR-4 box, which is the digital reverb. You can see the cage on two of your photos (number 3 & 4). There are access slots on one side of the cage--in photo 4 you can see the access slots. Peer into those slots, and you'll see the pots. They'll be marked B, M, T & G (bass, midrange, treble, and gain), but I' don't remember the sequence. There should be a plastic "diddle stick" with a screwdriver blade on one end to make adjustments.

                      The large board below the cage is the mixer board. Don't make any adjustments there unless you're sure of what you are doing.

                      Toodles.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kharrington View Post
                        Thanks for your help and advice! Not sure what those 4 unused cables in the fourth pic were for.
                        Kharrington,

                        There appear to be a couple of different problems. I agree with Larrytow and Toodles. First, you may be missing an amplifier. However, since you did not include any photos of your amplifiers it would be impossible to tell. To trace the loose cords you see, go to the cage (aluminum box in your picture), and you will see Ch.1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 there. Follow those cords and see where they lead. They should lead either to the mixing board above, or to the amplifiers (probably the mixing board). I see there are loose cables on the top of the cage as well. Who knows what functionality was there before and is now not available.

                        The second issue is voicing the offending card. If you remove the screws on the face of the cage facing you, the cards will be exposed. Be sure you are grounded when working with the cage, as static electricity can cause problems. Inside the cage, you will see the cards that match the voicing chart. From top to bottom, the pots will be BTMG (Bass, Treble, Mid-Range, Gain). Since the organ was probably voiced well before, I'd guess it would be the gain that is the issue. GENTLY turn the Gain from left to right without forcing it. You can do this when the organ is on. Adjust it for sound levels, and see if it fixes the sound problem. Try to resist messing with the other voicing controls unless you know what you're doing or have an excellent ear. If you are voicing one stop (i.e. the Quintaten 16') to your tastes by moving the Bass control, you may inadvertently make the Gedackt or Clarion too heavy or full-bodied. One needs to keep the entire group of stops in mind when voicing, and not just one sound.

                        Let us know how things turn out. More pictures of the amplifiers, and perhaps even the entire layout inside the back of your organ would help us help you a bit better.

                        Michael
                        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                        • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The "ADC-3160" is really an MADC-3 organ, not an ADC organ, so advice based on the ADC series isn't quite right. The MADC series was based on the ADC technology, but simplified, and built on a few boards, not really a "card cage" where there are separate frequency like the full ADC models. Here's a picture of the insides of the MADC organs.

                          The inside of the hinged panel is the "cage", which in this case is just a folded, perforated metal screen. On the left side of this cage you'll see the slots for access to the voicing adjustments. There is no cover to remove to get to these adjustments. They are labelled, but I don't remember where--either on the outside side of the cage, or maybe on the circuit boards.

                          This might give you a better idea of what to look for.

                          I don't think you are missing an amplifier, but it is possible. The ADC3160 used a 4-channel ADC amp, and it could power 4 main plus 4 antiphonal speakers. If there were antiphonal speakers, there should be antiphonal relay cards, the speaker wires would connect to these.

                          From the photos you showed with the amp in one corner of the picture (the one with the dangling cables), the pots on the 2 channels are set to very different levels--it would be easy to have moved these accidentally during dismantling. You might just start by setting these all to the same level--start low (maybe 3) and move up till you have adequate volume.


                          Toodles.
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