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  • Allen MOS-II playing all notes

    Don't know for certain how many notes are playing. The church that owns it told me that the manuals were working fine but selecting any peda; stop and playing any pedal would cause numerous notes to come on and continue playing until you turn off the organ. Maybe without the stop selection step. When I met it on 1 NOV, the manuals no longer worked. Selecting certain stops would cause tones to self play; more than those selected. Pressing manual keys changed nothing. As I recall, none of the flutes did this. If it can be made to work, I'll give it a try. I figure that step one will be reseating everything but I haven't done anything but look, so far.

    I am not certain that any good use will be made of this organ, if it can be repaired. The church has shifted to contemporary worship and this organ and a 6' Steinway sit mouldering in the currently unused sanctuary. This person is marrying the worship pastor and is intrigued about learning to play it (he currently plays bass very well).

    For identification purposes, the organ has a moving tab combination action in good working order, a key switch for memories A & B, and an "alterable voice" card reader. I got the MOS II from ID's on the rear. Manufacture dates of 1996 and 1997 appear on a couple of assemblies. It seems to be a three computer organ. It has speakers on both sides in the front and about six antiphonals on the rear wall. Looks like a well-thought out installation.
    Attached Files
    Roland Atelier AT-90s, AT-80s, AT-70, 30, and 15. Roland VR-760 combo
    Yamaha S-90, Kurzweil PC-3x, Casio Privia PX-330, Roland E-80, G-70, BK-5, Leslie 760, 820
    Moved on:
    Allen 3MT/Hauptwerk, Technics GA1, Yamaha HX1, AR80, numerous Hammonds, including 2 M's, an L, 2 A-100's, XP-2, XM-1/1c, & an XK-3. Roland Atelier AT-30, 60r, 80, & 20r(2 units), and a slew of Leslies (147, 142, 760, 900, 330).
    Korg Triton Le-61, Casio Privia PX-310 & 110, and Kurzweils: PC-2x, SP-88, Pro-III, K1000

  • #2
    It would help to know the actual model as MOS 2 organs used two different keying systems. Models 405 and above used an SDDS Mux board while the remainder did not and were essentially the same as MOS 1 instruments in this respect.

    It's not clear from your description whether there are multiple problems or not.

    The problem with the pedal may simply be the alignment of the pedal clavier.

    When I have notes that self play on my MOS 2 it's because one of my cats has crawled inside and bent some of the keyboard contacts. Because of polyphony limitations, if more than ten notes are playing at once (keyboards and pedals combined) additional notes will not be accepted and the keyboards will appear to be dead.

    I'd remove the pedal board to eliminate that as the source of any extraneous notes. The pedal contacts are reed switches and these can be activated if the pedal board is not in the correct position.

    If notes still sound, identify the contact for each of the notes and examine it. These are leaf type contacts and can be easily bent in or out of position.

    When you are sure that no contacts are closed and if you still have notes sounding, you'll have to get into the electronics.
    -Admin

    Allen 965
    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
    Hauptwerk 4.2

    Comment


    • #3
      When the problem was described to me, I was told that a single note was "stuck". So I expected a bent contact wire. Turns out that there is no connection between the pedal clavier and the console. It appears to be some sort of magnetic proximity system. Since no stops were drawn at times, I'm inclined to think it not coming from a stuck note. Too many pitches playing. Still, the ten note limit is surprising and useful to know. I wondered why there wasn't even MORE going on. I'll go back and again detach the clavier and turn it on again. Had not tried that yet. This may bring back the manuals which will indicate that you're on the right track. I'll also turn over the pedals and see what that end of the keying system looks like. And get a better model number.
      Roland Atelier AT-90s, AT-80s, AT-70, 30, and 15. Roland VR-760 combo
      Yamaha S-90, Kurzweil PC-3x, Casio Privia PX-330, Roland E-80, G-70, BK-5, Leslie 760, 820
      Moved on:
      Allen 3MT/Hauptwerk, Technics GA1, Yamaha HX1, AR80, numerous Hammonds, including 2 M's, an L, 2 A-100's, XP-2, XM-1/1c, & an XK-3. Roland Atelier AT-30, 60r, 80, & 20r(2 units), and a slew of Leslies (147, 142, 760, 900, 330).
      Korg Triton Le-61, Casio Privia PX-310 & 110, and Kurzweils: PC-2x, SP-88, Pro-III, K1000

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kurzweil View Post
        . So I expected a bent contact wire. Turns out that there is no connection between the pedal clavier and the console. It appears to be some sort of magnetic proximity system.
        That is correct. The reed switches are in the console and the plastic magnets on the pedal board. If this isn't seated right the magnets can activate one or more of the reed switches. Pull it away from the console so this is not possible.

        Since no stops were drawn at times, I'm inclined to think it not coming from a stuck note.
        No stops have to be drawn to get sound if the crescendo pedal is open even slightly.
        -Admin

        Allen 965
        Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
        Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
        Hauptwerk 4.2

        Comment


        • #5
          Kurzweil,

          You can also lift the offending end of the pedal board while the notes are playing and see if that makes a difference (i.e. pitch shift of the offending notes, etc.).

          I suspect they probably moved the console to accommodate some of their "contemporary" instruments, and the floor and/or carpeting is causing the issue OR they've lost a caster in the move. It could be as simple as the pedal board not being seated properly. I remember when I moved the Symphony's ADC-6000 onto the 2nd platform I built (after a mover broke off 2 of the wheels!), it had the same issue until I found out that lifting the organ caused the issue to stop--in the move, I had lost a caster and the organ was too low.

          Hope this is useful to you. I look forward to hearing of the solution.

          Michael

          P.S. The model number will be on the hinge rail of the cover of the organ--inside the organ. It looks smaller than my 505B
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

          Comment


          • #6
            I went back to the church at lunch today and checked it again. The organ is a 705D #47559, ID exactly where Michael said to look. And Admin's note about 10 note polyphony certainly explained why the manuals stopped working. No more notes available. I pulled the pedals away before I even turned it on and everything worked normally. I put on lots of pedals stops and no difference. I pulled the pedal board back up and dropped the left side only, into place. The first six notes played normally. I kept pulling the right side closer to latching position and more and more notes came on until all were playing. I then dropped it too into place and a bunch of pedal stops began cyphering and at several pitches. I shut it down (probably should not have) and pulled it back a half inch on the right side. I left it with everything working so there is clearly just a fairly minor problem in the pedal switching. I reported this to the pastor and returned to work.

            The only thing that differs from the advice given, which was most excellent, is that it works when dislodged, rather than when in place. As far as I can tell it was not moved for the conference and the problem predated the conference anyway. If they want it taken further, I should be able to sort it out. Since the guy is a bass player, I'm not certain about his intentions. He's marrying the worship minister in two weeks and perhaps would like it played for the wedding. I offered to the pastor to do that for him. Thanks all for the accurate suggestions. I didn't check every stop and do not know about the antiphonals but I suspect that every part of this organ is working correctly.
            Roland Atelier AT-90s, AT-80s, AT-70, 30, and 15. Roland VR-760 combo
            Yamaha S-90, Kurzweil PC-3x, Casio Privia PX-330, Roland E-80, G-70, BK-5, Leslie 760, 820
            Moved on:
            Allen 3MT/Hauptwerk, Technics GA1, Yamaha HX1, AR80, numerous Hammonds, including 2 M's, an L, 2 A-100's, XP-2, XM-1/1c, & an XK-3. Roland Atelier AT-30, 60r, 80, & 20r(2 units), and a slew of Leslies (147, 142, 760, 900, 330).
            Korg Triton Le-61, Casio Privia PX-310 & 110, and Kurzweils: PC-2x, SP-88, Pro-III, K1000

            Comment


            • #7
              I have seen Allen's where ciphers occur when the pedals are in place properly but disappear after all the pedals are pressed.
              Even though the reed switch assembly is adjustable its often easier to place a shim in the wooden notch where the pedals rest.
              td
              Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kurzweil View Post
                The only thing that differs from the advice given, which was most excellent, is that it works when dislodged, rather than when in place.
                Kurzweil,

                It is possible to adjust the contact assembly (I did that on the Symphony's organ), but that is a last resort. Rather, try using folded paper or a folded paper towel in the notch as Dave suggested and see if that works. As little as 1/4" can make the difference. If not, then use the folded paper towel under the offending corner of the console where the contacts are. If that doesn't work, then try the folded paper towel under the glide on the right, front corner of the pedals. Once you have ascertained where the issue lies, then you can do something more permanent. Some of Allen's pedal assemblies have adjustable glides. Here in the North, I've actually known older churches to "shift" on their foundation as the ground freezes because they hadn't been maintained well. Tolerances on digital organ pedals don't handle church shifts too well.

                For what it's worth, organs in churches have a tendency to move on their own from week to week. At a church I played for about 25 years ago, I noticed the organ bench had been moved, so I checked the imprints of the bench to see how far. It was then I noticed the entire organ had moved. I found the metal conduit for the speaker cords coming out of the floor was pinching all the cords between the edge of the conduit and the wooden console. Someone wanted to vacuum under the console!X-( Just yesterday, I played for one of my churches and discovered my organ had been moved about 6 inches to one side because someone wanted to open a closet door and I hadn't left them enough room. Fortunately, my organ in that church is on a rolling platform.

                While their 705 reportedly "hasn't been moved," be careful not to discount other possibilities.

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you gentlemen. If I go back, I will explore these scenarios, with the power ON. I am thinking a 1/4" block of wood taped to the end of the right side of the pedals, preventing them from dropping into place. But underneath that corner may do also. I will have to determine if pulling them BACK or pulling them UP, corrected the issue. Since pedals drop to actuate, them sitting a mite too low seems likely. Unless I hear back from the church or the bass player, I'll leave it as is.
                  Roland Atelier AT-90s, AT-80s, AT-70, 30, and 15. Roland VR-760 combo
                  Yamaha S-90, Kurzweil PC-3x, Casio Privia PX-330, Roland E-80, G-70, BK-5, Leslie 760, 820
                  Moved on:
                  Allen 3MT/Hauptwerk, Technics GA1, Yamaha HX1, AR80, numerous Hammonds, including 2 M's, an L, 2 A-100's, XP-2, XM-1/1c, & an XK-3. Roland Atelier AT-30, 60r, 80, & 20r(2 units), and a slew of Leslies (147, 142, 760, 900, 330).
                  Korg Triton Le-61, Casio Privia PX-310 & 110, and Kurzweils: PC-2x, SP-88, Pro-III, K1000

                  Comment

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