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Advice for tuning an Allen protege AP-2 (MDS) W5

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  • jbird604
    replied
    The pics you posted appear to show not an "AP-3" but a "C-3a" which is a later model with the same (more or less) stoplist and feature set. There was apparently some overlap between W-5 and CEN-1 technologies as a basis for the Protege models, so there may have been C3a organs which actually were sold as AP-3 models, since the stop list is virtually identical, as is the audio system and general appearance.

    However, the C-3a uses a version of Renaissance technology called "CEN-1" which condenses the functions of a regular Rennaisance cage onto a single flat board, much like MADC condensed the functions of the ADC cage to a single board.

    So, this organ being a Renaissance type, indeed does NOT have any visible adjustments, though, as noted above, the amplifier chassis does have two miniature pots behind some small holes that can be used to vary the channel levels.

    But in order to voice this organ you would need DOVE installed on a suitable computer. I don't think you can do anything about the reverb either, though there may be some options in the console controller that relate to the reverb type and level.

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  • Moller Artiste
    replied
    Originally posted by julianjsoh View Post
    I went to have a look at my friend's AP3 today. Lo and behold, there were no physical controls whatsoever for voicing. I could not find anything adjustable. Even the amplifier chassis had no controls. I don't understand why! Was quite perplexing.

    Maybe these pictures might help? [ATTACH=CONFIG]24171[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]24172[/ATTACH]
    On the top of the amp cover to the left of the connector, there should be a small hole. A small screwdriver is required to adjust the pot. If you use a flashlight to shine into the hole, you can see the pot.

    There should be openings in the cage or cage cover to access the voicing pots. I don't recall that it's necessary to remove the cover to get to the pots. Someone else on the forum probably remembers the location of the voicing pots.

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  • julianjsoh
    replied
    I went to have a look at my friend's AP3 today. Lo and behold, there were no physical controls whatsoever for voicing. I could not find anything adjustable. Even the amplifier chassis had no controls. I don't understand why! Was quite perplexing.

    Maybe these pictures might help? Click image for larger version

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  • jbird604
    replied
    On the faceplate of the W5 generator you have several controls dedicated to the reverb. The first thing and simplest thing to try -- adjust the output gain on both channels 1 and 2. This doesn't directly affect the reverb length, but when the reverb is boosted a bit, it will seem to be longer.

    You must be very cautious about adjusting the other controls in that area. The input gain must not be set so high that distortion can occur with a full-organ registration at full volume. The bass and treble controls likewise must be adjusted carefully or else you will get distortion or aliasing or some other bad effect. But no worries about adjusting the output gains. Turn them up all the way if you like.

    The other way to adjust reverb is with the four DIP switches in the lower right corner marked "reverb." Before you start tinkering, make a chart of how they are set so you can go back to the original setting if necessary. You can't hurt anything by playing with them, just be sure you can go back to the way it was if you mess up.

    Note that you will NOT hear any change when making DIP switch adjustments UNTIL you toggle the reverb switch off and back on each time. Be sure to do that. It helps to have a second person, sitting on the bench and playing, to do the toggling and let you hear what you are doing.

    Best I recall, the DIP switches function as follows: #1 simply turns on and off a slight "pre-delay" on the reverb. Listen to it in both settings and see the very slight difference it makes.

    #2 through #4 are the length settings. I'm only guessing, but you can try this to see which way it goes. Turn 2 through 4 "off" and see if you have a very very short reverb, barely noticeable. Then turn 2 through 4 "on" and see if you have a very long reverb. If so, then you know that is how they work. I could be wrong, and maybe they work in the opposite way, with "off" being the longest delay and "on" being the shortest. But at least you will know.

    You can get change the reverb length by turning on 2 through 4 in various combinations. No doubt it is a binary arrangement, so there would be 8 different lengths available, using 2 through 4 in a binary manner -- 000, 001, 010, 011, 100, 101, 110, 111 -- where 0 is off and 1 is on.

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  • julianjsoh
    replied
    I'm helping a friend to adjust the voicing for an AP-3. He wants to increase the reverb length. How do I do this on this model?

    Thanks.

    Julian

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  • circa1949
    replied
    The Afrikaans label is amusing! I've seen the same thing at some amateurish website for French Allen organs (that probably isn't around anymore). It seems overseas distributors are permitted to create their own nameplate designs.

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  • jbird604
    replied
    No need to have the organ off. Obviously you must be listening to the stops as you adjust them. But you can do the "exercising" of the pots with the organ turned on. No harm in that. If you hear a scratching noise as you turn a pot, that means it was indeed dirty, so turn it until you don't hear the noise.

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  • Johnallen
    replied
    Thanks a lot for all this. As soon as i have an afternoon off i will make sure to do tests. Is it better to have the organ turned off when i insert the skrew driver?

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  • jbird604
    replied
    Johnallen,

    Looks like you have the standard version with chimes and no Krumhorn. I'm attaching the voicing chart that goes with your model.

    Go back up to the original voicing procedure that I posted (#2 above) and follow it exactly. I checked to make sure, and all the stops that you need to match up are named in that post. If you do this carefully, you will have a good voicing on the organ, possibly better than the original factory voicing.

    Be sure to listen carefully to the high notes and high frequency content in all the stops. You may want the treble controls turned down just a little.

    Good luck!
    Attached Files

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  • Johnallen
    replied


    Will it be possible to indicate which stop sound must mach each other please?
    Attached Files

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  • jbird604
    replied
    Sure. Take pics of your stops and post them and I'll try to match it up with one of the versions.

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  • Johnallen
    replied
    Hi John

    THanks for the advice. I'll make sure to follow it when i have time to play around. If i provide a full stoplist of the organ, can the exact model be determined?

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  • jbird604
    replied
    Good. As I said, the AP-3 went through numerous revisions, so there are several charts for it in the manual. But the chart for the AP-2 will get you started, and you can pencil in the extra stops that you have. You can discover for yourself what is in each of the four channels. Turn all the Gain controls all the way off, then turn on just one of them. check to see which stops play and make a list. Do that with each of the four Gain controls and you will have a complete listing just for your organ.

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  • Johnallen
    replied
    Thank you so much for the information. I located the metal plate with the control. I was wondering what the metal plate was for.

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  • jbird604
    replied
    When you remove the back of the organ, the voicing controls will be right there in the middle. The W-5 generator assembly is mounted on a swing-out panel, but you don't even swing it out. the four sets of controls will be visible on a metal plate, clearly marked.

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