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  • Rodgers 22D

    So a church is trying to get rid of a Rodgers 22D organ and a few of the members know I like organs so they are dumping the entire thing on me. Its all there (Console, pedals, tone cabinets, amps) and I have been looking it over but I have a few questions. Are there any schematics for the amps and preamp inside the organ? If I need to replace the caps what are the values? They are not printed on the side of the cans and on the 2 S100 amps there are giant capacitors I am guessing but they are unlabeled as well... basically any info about this organ would be good info.

    Also since I have absolutly no more room for this organ since its a bunch of Hammonds in my house is it worth anything?

    Thanks
    Zack
    Current Organs: Conn 651 with Conn 255/256 tone cabinets and two leslie 600's, Hammond H-100
    Former Organs: (I miss them all) Hammond Piper, Hammond T-582 (x2), Hammond M-100 & leslie 225,
    Allen 305, Rodgers 22D and the Hammond H-100 (x2), Hammond model E, Conn 621
    "I cannae change the laws of physics!"
    -Montgomery Scott (Star Trek: TOS)

  • #2
    The 22d according to Jan G's famous list, is a 1966 organ with 32 pedals.
    They have good key contacts and should last forever, if anybody likes the sound. In my neighborhood, with two seminaries and Jacobs music school within 60 miles, 32 pedal rodgers organs are never listed on CL less than $5000. The exception is the 5xx series that had the short lived rubber keyboards, those are down around $500. There has never been a discrete oscillator Rodgers with real pedals I have seen, so I really don't know if this would go for that much. I can't spot the model with a picture on CL.
    The schematic for the Rodgers type 6 amp has been on OF recently, try bing or something to search for it. Very conventional split supply amp with a single pair of quasi-comp output transistors, npn-pnp drivers, a single pnp VAS and two cascaded NPN's as the input stage. Sort of like a Leak stereo 70 with single supply. It has with triple diode up-down driver voltage splitters, no VAS multiplier transistor and no OT idle current control pot. Its got 4.7 ohm emitter resistors on the OT's, which is a little weird but should reduce the chance of thermal runaway. Its got the usual rail e-caps and some smaller e-caps sprinkled through out as couplers. There is a weird 5000 uf cap in the emitter circuit of the second input transistor. The rails were +-24, and the only caps on the print were 2000 uf, which strikes me as a little light, but those were for +-12 for the input stages. I'd try a pair of 3300 uf 65 v for a single output transistor amp, that works fine in my dynaco ST120 single pair amp, which only has one since it has a single supply. I don't care what jbird and aire say, the first Allen I ever touched , a 301, has amp volume problems probably caused by leaky 25 year old rail e-caps. They were sangamos, which is probably a step up from CDE or something, but still not all the way to Mallory computer grade.
    I'm sorry I don't have another reference for an early split supply quasi comp amp, but I dont' download split supply amp schematics. Sort of like a Heatkit 1515 or a dynaco sT150, but without the differential transistor input stage. There isn't any feedback from the speaker to linearize it like a hifi amp. **** split supply amps will toast your speaker coil if the output transistor shorts. This Series 6 has no DC protection circuit I can see. It looks better designed than a SWTC or a tigersaurus from the same era.
    Last edited by indianajo; 03-15-2015, 11:42 PM.
    city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

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    • #3
      I see a listing at 'Barton Theater Organs' for $1500. Appears to be a current listing.
      'Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.' --N. Bonaparte

      My friends call me Steve, won't you be my friend?
      The cast, in order of appearance:
      Kawai K5, Yamaha PSR-85, Thomas Trianon A-6820, Gulbransen 621-K, Conn 580 T-2, GEM WK1 ST
      Hammond H-112, Ser. #16518, from 8/16/1971
      Oh, and let's don't forget the Jaymar!

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      • #4
        The S-100 main filter cap is 5300 mfd 100 volts.
        The organ power supply has 4000, 2000, and 1000 mfd's.

        td
        Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hello, Zack:

          If you are interested in acquiring an original Rodgers service manual for that 22D, I have one for sale from my collection. Just send me a PM (Private Message) and we'll make a deal. It is good news that the amps are S100's rather than the T50's originally supplied with that model. I started working at the Rodgers plant in Hillsboro, Oregon (Quality Control officer) and so did field service on a number of those early organs. They were built like a tank!

          Let me know if you need help.

          . . . Jan
          the OrganGrinder

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          • #6
            Well how much would this particular Rodgers go for or what would be a reasonable asking price? Because I know I cant keep it but I do want to make sure I find a home for it and perhaps fix any leaky caps or what have you.
            Current Organs: Conn 651 with Conn 255/256 tone cabinets and two leslie 600's, Hammond H-100
            Former Organs: (I miss them all) Hammond Piper, Hammond T-582 (x2), Hammond M-100 & leslie 225,
            Allen 305, Rodgers 22D and the Hammond H-100 (x2), Hammond model E, Conn 621
            "I cannae change the laws of physics!"
            -Montgomery Scott (Star Trek: TOS)

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't know what seminaries or organ music schools are near Warren MI, but those are your market. Serious church musicians need a practice instrument. I know U Mich has a huge music school in Ann Arbor, who knows if they have an organ performance degree or not.
              If you put $25 of e-caps in the power amp, you can probably "guarantee" it for 6 months or something within 60 miles of home which would help allay the objections of parents (who you would be selling to really). Your risk is one of the other gen boards e-caps shorting out, they cost $.09 but are a nuisance to put in. Many of those church musician intending students would rather have an Allen MDS or later, but $5000 is not going to make Dad & Mom very happy in many cases. So advertise in the college papers or in local music papers in the college towns. In addition to Craigslist. E-bay and big organs, I don't know, they make it so hard to sort out the product thousands of miles from you, and professional organ shipment is $$$$. The key words in the ad are "32 pedals, AGO, spec, with bench" unless it is a Princess (smaller span) pedal model.
              No restoration for and AGO 32 pedal analog Rodgers I'd ask $700, with new amp caps I'd ask $1500. You'd settle for less of course. It bottoms out about $200, virtual organ builders will buy it for that. If you want more money and have time, put the midi encoder in it for about $50 and advertise and demonstrate that with a PC or laptop and jorgan, too.
              city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

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              • #8
                Zack: you don't need to worry about e.caps on those analog generators, though there are a number of the little TE series scattered throughout the racks. The book you ordered will cover it all.

                . . . Jan
                the OrganGrinder

                Comment


                • #9
                  So poking around the organ is entirely dead. Only the lights light up. The combination pistons switch the lights but the stop tabs dont move like I guess they should. I assume the amplifiers are fine because the church musician said it played when they first found it. I can only get to it ever so often so what ideas should I bring with me to do next time I go?
                  Current Organs: Conn 651 with Conn 255/256 tone cabinets and two leslie 600's, Hammond H-100
                  Former Organs: (I miss them all) Hammond Piper, Hammond T-582 (x2), Hammond M-100 & leslie 225,
                  Allen 305, Rodgers 22D and the Hammond H-100 (x2), Hammond model E, Conn 621
                  "I cannae change the laws of physics!"
                  -Montgomery Scott (Star Trek: TOS)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That pretty well points to a power supply problem. Power supplies are the ones with the e-caps that go bad first. A really shorted one will take out a rectifier diode or regulator. (No regulator IC's in 1966, a blessing). Take a DVM a couple of clip leads, and your parts layout page. Non moving stop tabs point to a dead 24 v power supply. Take some 5 a and 10 a AG3 fuses, but don't replace a fuse until you've found the problem and fixed it. A moving coil part could have shorted, no experience with stop tabs but moving parts do rub insulation off sometimes. I've remove the load from the 24 v supply, see if it comes up, if so remove a jumper in the middle of the 24 v daisy chain to see if the short is in the front half or the back half.
                    downstream e-caps can short out the PS, too. Despite jan's quibble, any rubber sealed cap can have shorted at this age, even the ones on the sound generation or filter boards. You can pull boards to see if the dead PS snaps back to nominal voltage. If Rodgers was using epoxy seal e-caps which last forever, I'd be surprised. Green CDE's are the only silicon seal ones I've heard of, although Sprague did have a really rare series of them.
                    If you can't spot an e-cap, look at newark.com passive components, caps, aluminum electrolytic for some pictures. They have a plus near one lead, or are tall cans with squares circles and triangles for the various plus sections, or NP after the voltage for non-polar e-caps. The rice grained size tantalum e-caps with a red end from 1966 were particularly short lived. Diodes, your voltmeter will show AC voltage before and no DC afterward if a rectifier is shorted.
                    Another PS problem can be the power up delay relay if a Rodgers has one. These were an RC timer circuit, with the C in the timer being an e-cap (short lived design; I used 1 mf ceramic caps in 1976 for NASA JSC equipment for power on reset).
                    city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BaconByte View Post
                      So poking around the organ is entirely dead. Only the lights light up. The combination pistons switch the lights but the stop tabs dont move like I guess they should. I assume the amplifiers are fine because the church musician said it played when they first found it. I can only get to it ever so often so what ideas should I bring with me to do next time I go?
                      Take some fuses. (3AG size) The spring type slo-blo fuses can fail from old age. Also apply some deoxit to the power connectors on the CPS1215 power supply.

                      td
                      Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Turns out a mouse gnawed into a few wires long log ago. But that looks like all it did. It plays and it sounds pretty nice considering its age. It lets out a big thump when its switched on and a few stops "pop" as well when you hit the tabs. But it does not play 100%
                        A few flute stops dont play on some keys and at the top octave when you hit F it plays the C above it. This only happens on most of the flute stops. I have forgotten exactly which ones but I might make it back tomorrow to get another look. The other thing that seems to be wrong with it is the "Full Chorus" tab does nothing. What exactly should it do and how do I make it do that? Other then that it plays nicely, sounds great and really impressed the people who came in to hear it. I cant wait for it to end up in my home.

                        Thanks again.
                        Current Organs: Conn 651 with Conn 255/256 tone cabinets and two leslie 600's, Hammond H-100
                        Former Organs: (I miss them all) Hammond Piper, Hammond T-582 (x2), Hammond M-100 & leslie 225,
                        Allen 305, Rodgers 22D and the Hammond H-100 (x2), Hammond model E, Conn 621
                        "I cannae change the laws of physics!"
                        -Montgomery Scott (Star Trek: TOS)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Full Chorus slightly changes the pitch of the main and flute generators. There is an adjustment pot on the top of the Preset Board on the Keyer Rack.

                          td
                          Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tucsondave View Post
                            Full Chorus slightly changes the pitch of the main and flute generators. There is an adjustment pot on the top of the Preset Board on the Keyer Rack.

                            td
                            Found the pot. Got the chorus back. I like the sound of it.
                            They let me work on the organ at night so I got to stay in a big church with the organ all to myself. Played almost through the night.

                            Now for the missing tones and out of tune tones. Where do I start?
                            Current Organs: Conn 651 with Conn 255/256 tone cabinets and two leslie 600's, Hammond H-100
                            Former Organs: (I miss them all) Hammond Piper, Hammond T-582 (x2), Hammond M-100 & leslie 225,
                            Allen 305, Rodgers 22D and the Hammond H-100 (x2), Hammond model E, Conn 621
                            "I cannae change the laws of physics!"
                            -Montgomery Scott (Star Trek: TOS)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Start by using the keying chart to determine which oscillators are missing or out of tune. Check to see if the same oscillator number is missing from both keyboards.
                              This will determine if its a dead oscillator or a keying problem. Or that pesky mouse.

                              td
                              Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

                              Comment

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