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Transporting Allen Protege AP-4

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  • Transporting Allen Protege AP-4

    Just acquired an AP-4, at a distance. I have dimensions from the Allen Co. blurb. Planning for pick-up, will the pedalboard nest under the console for transportation? I am guessing "no." Never hurts to ask, though. I am also assuming that the console has no moving internal parts that need to be stayed. Advice welcomed. Thx, yeffurb

  • #2
    Yeffurb,

    I transport my Allen organs all the time via trailer. I don't have to anchor the innards of an Allen organ unless someone has tampered with them. One of my organs had an amplifier where someone had removed both screws, and it was moving around inside all the time. That's how I knew they had traded out a good amplifier and given me a bad one. Oh well, live and learn.

    That said, the organ itself DOES need to be stabilized during transport so it doesn't tip or slide. It should also be covered with a furniture pad during transport. That's essential because the ratchet on the tie-down strap can scratch the surface of the organ. Each component should be padded as well.

    While the pedals will fit vertically under the organ where the bench normally goes, they can (and do) tip and gouge the console. I don't know if this information helps you at all, but I hope it helps.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

    Comment


    • #3
      If you wrap the pedalboard with moving blankets and tuck it under the keydesk, and tie everything down so that it can't move, then it's save to transport this way.

      They key to a safe move is to not allow things to move within the trailer/moving van and pad everything well. Vibrations can abrade finishes, so tie it down so it can't move back and forth.

      Congratulations on a nice acquisition!

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks so far! Does anyone know the actual weight of the console only? I would also love to know the seven dimensions of one end of the console. (Actually I would love to know all the dimensions of everything.) Are the "feet" on either end removeable by chance? It would be tight, but I think that I can angle the console into the rear of my 97 Explorer. Sposed to go get it this Saturday. Obviously, if it's questionable, we get ourselves a trailer . . . . But still curious.

        Comment


        • #5
          yeffurb,

          If it's the organ I think you're getting--great find! Personally, I rent a 5x8 enclosed U-Haul to transport all my organs when I purchase them at long distances. If you rent from your local, you can get it for $15/$20 per day, whereas a one-way rental might be as high as $300-$400 (or less). I rent one-way because it is usually over 1000 miles, and when I consider the gas mileage of towing an empty U-Haul one way, it's not worth it unless you're within a few hundred miles. When I rent one-way, I often pick up the U-Haul from a marginal dealer who is close to, but not in the location I plan to pick up the organ. By checking around the geographical area, you can sometimes lower the one-way fee by as much as $100 or more. Making the reservation in advance helps too. Often walk-ins aren't accepted because the trailers are all reserved.

          Console dimensions and weight can be found on Allen's official documentation sheets where only dealers have access. I believe that console is much smaller than all of mine, so it may actually fit in a utility van, however, I've never found one that fit inside my Grand Caravan laying down. I wouldn't recommend it anyway, because it requires an unnatural position for the organ over many miles, ruts, and potholes.

          Hope this helps some.

          Michael
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the advice Michael. Couple Questions at Bottom.

            We scrambled to rent a 5x8 (successfully, thankfully), seeing that it is month's end. U-Haul refused to rent us a trailer because we would be towing it with a pre-2000 Explorer. Something about lawsuits. So it cost more than double from a local place. But that's okay; we'll only be doing this once. I have a 40x48 pallet and a couple of really nice 40 x 40 skids to work with. Plenty of moving blankets, ratcheting tie downs, shrink wrap, and rolls of packing tape. She'll be snug as a bug.

            I am going to lay it on its back.

            Does the AP4 (or smaller Allens in general) have any supporting braces or pillars inside the back (other than at each end)?

            How does the AGO Pedalboard disengage?

            Mark

            Comment


            • #7
              Here's photo of the inside back and the only info I could find on the dimensions.
              The lid has a hidden latch to prevent tampering but is sometimes removed so make sure the lid is secure.
              Also if moving it on its back be aware of the pull out carrying handles and secure the roll top.
              The panel marked with 2, 4, 5, 6, & 7 in the photo is hinged.
              The pedals are removed by simply lifting the front part near the console about an inch and pulling them out. Be careful not to damage the magnets on the front of the pedals.
              I would not move the organ on its back unless absolutely necessary.
              td

              Click image for larger version

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              Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Dave! I thought that lying on its back would be the best position re: center of gravity. The 5x8 is kinda bouncy. No real way that I can see to tie the back of it to either side of the trailer, upright. That leaves the center. I'll carefully weigh your advice at time of survey tomorrow. Mark

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by yeffurb View Post
                  I have a 40x48 pallet and a couple of really nice 40 x 40 skids to work with. Plenty of moving blankets, ratcheting tie downs, shrink wrap, and rolls of packing tape. She'll be snug as a bug.
                  Mark,

                  I'd recommend that you forgo the pallet and stick with the skids or utility dollies that can be found at any big box hardware store. The pallet will probably make it high enough so it will not fit inside the trailer. My Allens just barely clear the lift-door when it is all the way up--that's with nothing underneath. I've only had to remove the music rack on the ADC-6000 because I didn't know anything about moving them at that time.

                  Just be careful, in that the organ (unless they've corrected the design) will be front-heavy and have a tendency to tip forward instead of backwards.
                  Originally posted by yeffurb View Post
                  I am going to lay it on its back.
                  I second Dave's suggestion that you NOT transport it on its back. Upright is so much better, and how I transport all of mine.

                  The pedalboard simply pulls out horizontally from the console. There is a notch on either side of the console where the pedals rest. I reach between the pedals (without the sharp--i.e. E/F on the left, and E/F on the right), and there is enough space to get your hand in there and lift the pedals slightly off the notch.
                  Originally posted by tucsondave View Post
                  I would not move the organ on its back unless absolutely necessary.
                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]18534[/ATTACH]
                  Oh, what a cute little baby!:P My organs (ADC-6000 and ADC-5400) weigh between 700lbs. and 800lbs. When transporting with dollies or placing them on the platforms, I lift each end alone, while someone else places the dolly underneath. That way, there's no liability for their injuries.

                  The speakers are approximately 80lbs. each. Because I have physical issues, I put one hand in the notch where the speakers connect to the wires in the back, and the other in the lip of the front (grille or frame), and walk them on my legs. With 2 people, they're easy to carry.
                  Originally posted by yeffurb View Post
                  Thanks Dave! I thought that lying on its back would be the best position re: center of gravity. The 5x8 is kinda bouncy. No real way that I can see to tie the back of it to either side of the trailer, upright. That leaves the center. I'll carefully weigh your advice at time of survey tomorrow. Mark
                  If you look at the bumper rail on the inside of the U-Haul, you will notice that there are gaps at regular intervals in the wood. I double the tie-down strap, and then put the hook through the resulting loop and pull tight. The organ is placed on the left-hand side of the trailer with the front toward the middle. I've found that most potholes and other issues with the back roads are on the passenger side of the road--not toward the middle. The bench and pedals can be to the right of the organ against the opposite wall, or you can place the speakers there and strap them in. Alternately, to maintain the 60/40 split in the weight of the organ, et al., I place the speakers by the back door and put the organ, pedals and bench as far forward as they will go. The speakers act as a counterweight for the organ on the other side of the axle.

                  I hope all this information helps and is not too late! Best wishes on your trip.

                  Michael

                  P.S. I just found this picture of moving the ADC-6000.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  Last edited by myorgan; 05-29-2015, 05:17 PM. Reason: Add photo.
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    U-Haul is goofy about people with pre-2000 Explorers, so I don't have that nice thigh level band to tie into. All I have is floor rings on the four corners.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      At 250 some odd pounds, I don't think you will have a problem. The off center weight will hardly register, given the weight of the trailer itself. You will have more problems in a small trailer when the weight is off front-to-back. However, since you have loops on the floor in the corners, I would suggest making one tight package of the organ, pedals, and bench, padded and strapped together in a neat bundle. Place this in the center of the trailer, centered on the axle, long dimension front to back. Run two straps up and over the top, crossing from corner to corner both ways. If you get the ratchet straps in the right place, they will tighten up and not slip off. Stop after 100 miles and tighten one click (or two at the most).

                      I used to transport all manner of stuff, in pickups and trailers. Everything from bobcats to crates, and all manner of materials in odd shaped piles (especially the salvaged stuff). Keep the straps snug where they can't slide and the cargo won't budge. Double up on ratchet straps for extra cheap insurance.

                      Good luck!
                      “There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.”
                      “What I have achieved by industry and practice, anyone else with tolerable natural gift and ability can also achieve.”
                      Johann Sebastian Bach

                      (at Home) Conn 645 Theater Deluxe
                      (at Church) 1836 E. & G.G. Hook Bros, Opus 26

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by yeffurb View Post
                        U-Haul is goofy about people with pre-2000 Explorers, so I don't have that nice thigh level band to tie into. All I have is floor rings on the four corners.
                        Mark,

                        I just realized why they're so scared of pre-2000 Explorers. Do any of you remember the Firestone tire controversy where several fiery crashes occurred. Firestone blamed the Ford Explorer, and Ford blamed Firestone. I thought the controversy had been resolved, but evidently not! I guess I understand their reluctance. Too bad for you.:'(

                        Michael
                        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                        • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think that, and didn't they have live axles... and went to independent suspension? I think any skinny, tall vehicle can flip over in a catastrophic blow-out unless the driver promptly applies control. Some vehicles demonstrate a strong will to return to center in these situations. Some don't.

                          Mark, I tend to put the organ against the front with one tension strap over it. (And blankets under it, including some old furniture cushions that I protect the sides from the strap and tension mechanism.) Then I put the bench, pedals, etc. aft of the axles and tied down to the floor loops. I think the general rule is 60% or more of the cargo weight in FRONT of the axle(s) in order to prevent tale wag.

                          I've seen small trailers that have a wag going down the Interstate. One reminded me of "The Beautiful Blue Danube" and I was waiting for it to sideswipe something.

                          SP
                          -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic -- 1899 Kimball, Rodgers W5000C, Conn 643, Hammond M3, L-102 - "Let no man belong to another who can belong to himself." (Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest​ -) ​Paracelsus

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Silken Path View Post
                            I think the general rule is 60% or more of the cargo weight in FRONT of the axle(s) in order to prevent tale wag.
                            Too much weight on the tongue can also cause tail wag. I have had the best luck with balanced loads. Balanced to where you can pick it up at the tongue by hand and place it on the ball hitch without the jack (and this helps you avoid having to back up under it, just don't try to load by hand on a hill). Trailers that well balanced have never wagged for me, but unbalanced trailers, watch out!
                            “There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.”
                            “What I have achieved by industry and practice, anyone else with tolerable natural gift and ability can also achieve.”
                            Johann Sebastian Bach

                            (at Home) Conn 645 Theater Deluxe
                            (at Church) 1836 E. & G.G. Hook Bros, Opus 26

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here's what U-haul says:

                              The trailer should have about 60% of the cargo weight in front and 40% in the back.

                              I've never experienced wag, either, but my old 3/4 ton Dodge doesn't perceptibly sink when a loaded U-haul is attached. (I've measured before and after loading.) It's also heavy. It's pretty implacable about the various things I've towed so far. We might should take this discussion to the bottom of the forum, as it may take on religious traits, but the further the center of gravity (the "load") is from the fulcrum (i.e., the hitch) the greater the moment, or force, that it produces. I can't argue against a well-balanced load, but given my druthers, I'd druther have a little more of the weight in the front of the trailer. I also think that in a collision, I probably won't be too concerned about the old organ in the back, but at least it won't move forward. :)

                              SP
                              -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic -- 1899 Kimball, Rodgers W5000C, Conn 643, Hammond M3, L-102 - "Let no man belong to another who can belong to himself." (Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest​ -) ​Paracelsus

                              Comment

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