First Problem! Allen R100

[OrganistAnthony]

Hello again,

Thank you all again for my very recent warm welcome into the forum. Looks like I've come across my first problem already on my Allen R100-C. :'( The internal gyro speaker is just clicking and clacking away, driving me crazy. I could just turn it off, but I actually enjoy the random moving sound it provides especially as I'm plunking out notes and figuring out fingerings, as this is a home practice instrument. It really takes some of the digital, sterile edge off the sound. I believe the Allen rep that I purchased it from recently replaced the motor that controls the gyro. If this is an easy fix or a temporary thing, I thought I'd check here before being a pest, although there was no sound coming from the speaker when the organ first arrived about a week ago. I have a feeling I'm going to be learning a lot about organ repair, haha! -Anthony

I've attached a YouTube video link that I hope will be helpful, although I apologize for the poor lighting. If another shot would be helpful, I'd be most happy to provide it!

[rohrlover]

I wonder it that's belt noise. You could try (carefully) putting a bit of water on the belts themselves to see if the noise changes. Perhaps with a small rag, or cotton swab. That method is often used on cars, where you can spray water without damaging anything. Organ speakers, of course, shouldn't get wet...
It sounds to me like the belts may be stiff or dried out.

[Silken Path]

Well, I don't have any experience with these things, but based on my general mechanical experience, I'd try getting something like a screw driver or other smooth round tool and applying a small amount of tension to the belt in mid-run. That should help indicate indicate if it's the belt slipping and grabbing. Also look for any lube contamination on the surfaces the belt contacts, like inside pullies.

A stiff belt that has developed a twist in one place will sometimes produce an amazingly regular tick-tick-tick sound. Sometimes taking the belt and twisting it to turn it over several times can make it quieter for a while. (It's also therapeutic.)

Lamar

[OrganistAnthony]

Thanks for the advice Rohr and Silken. The noise is definitely coming from the belt, the one that moves fast. I did try wetting it a little bit with water. It helped temporarily. I also tried turning the belt over to the other side. The other side is slightly tapered, so I don't think it's supposed be interchangeable. Regardless, I did it anyway and it's staying in place and not making any noise although I won't be surprised if it popped off in the near future. It does seem like the belt could be a bit on the dry and stiff side. Any good way to remedy this? I also think you have to take something apart in order to take out or replace the belt.

[rohrlover]

There is belt dressing for automotive belts, perhaps a dab of that would help. Auto parts stores would have it.

[Silken Path]

I didn't mean turn it over and install it inside out - just twist it and turn over several times to work any twist or flat spots out. But hmmm, if putting it on upside-down quitened it down, that suggests that the belt tension needs increasing.

Lamar

[OrganistAnthony]

Well, upon closer inspection, after turning the belt inside out, it looks like there are some cracks on the inside of the belt. I'm guessing this thing will need to be replaced. Seems like it would be easy enough if something didn't need to be taken apart to get the belt completely off. I wonder if this is a universal belt that can be used for other things or specifically an Allen part that I'll need?

[Silken Path]

You could go to a local auto shop and see if they can match it up (NAPA stores tend to be old-fashioned and more helpful about things like this), but when you walk in, don't tell them it's for an organ. Say it's for the air conditioner in the trunk of your Edsel or something like that. :)

In a big city, an industrial supply house will almost certainly have something that fits.

Also, we have at least one forum member (jbird604 - John) who works on Allens and other church digitals in Arkansas for his day job. He might have one on hand.

Lamar

[jbird604]

I don't have one right now, but I have bought them in the past, and it was some standard Gates automotive-type belt. Even though it's thinner and smaller than the old "fan belt" on an old car, it's still an ordinary "V-belt" design, just a bit of an unusual size.

Take the old one off and get thee to an auto parts store. Looks like the only disassembly will be removing the two bolts that hold down the rear bearing. Once you remove them, and take the belt off the motor pulley, you should be able to lift the rear of the shaft just enough to get the belt out of there.

[Silken Path]

On old car alternator belts and other equipment, sometimes you can WET the belt with household alcohol and read the numbers on it, even after years and years.

Lamar

[OrganistAnthony]

Thanks for the additional info everyone! I have not done a lot of self organ repair other than tweaking settings and voicing, so I better make sure I'm unscrewing the right bolts. Are you referring to the bolts that hold down what looks like a metal silver metal covering that you can see in my video?

[tucsondave]

Yes, The upside down U that holds the bearing on the end of the shaft.
You can Google "Pillow block bearings" for more information.

td

[OrganistAnthony]

Well, I was able to remove the bearings enough to take the belts off; wasn't too difficult at all. I decided to just go ahead and replace both belts while I'm tearing things apart. A local bearings shop didn't have the belts in stock but ordered them for me. I thought it would be good practice to put the old ones back in place before installing the new belts. The only weird thing I encountered was that 3 metal pieces fell to the bottom while I was carefully moving the bearing that is attached to the rotating speakers, which I've attached a picture of. Despite these extra pieces everything seems to be working as it did before. I'll keep you all posted!

[Hamman]

Those look like they could be carbon brushes?? Where that box is next to the main shaft (rotating the actual speakers) there appears to be 3 wires connected to it. On the shaft there will be 3 lobes that look to be shiny brass. I think those 3 objects maybe the brushes that are spring loaded into that "box" next to the shaft and they (brushes) ride on the 3 lobes of the shaft. The springs would be inside the box and they keep constant pressure on those brushes to the lobes. That is what sends the audio signal to your spinning speakers. If you move the shaft from the box there is a good chance that the spring loaded brushes may fall out....which is what I'm suspecting happened in your case

[OrganistAnthony]

Well, I definitely screwed things up and what you said makes perfect sense because now I'm definitely missing some flute audio volume and upper frequency. :'( It was too simple and easy to be true! I didn't see any other way to get the smaller belt out but to unfasten the bearing that is attached to the speaker.