Rodgers 1974 Carnegie 5 manual console

[radagast]

This is being sold from Hillsboro, OR, where Rodgers' headquarters is. Does this seller really think they're going to get $54,000 for an empty console?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/261979585683?_mwBanner=1

[Hamman]

I'd give him $5,400 for it....it is a nice console

[radagast]

I'd give him $5,400 for it....it is a nice console

Maybe the seller put the comma in the wrong place. $5400 is more like it.

[Silken Path]

Guys, is it THE Rodgers from Carnegie Hall?

Also, does anybody from Hillsboro recognize that building? And is it sitting on a marble slab?

[Tweedle_Dee]

Interesting. I just took a tour of Rodger's facility last month and saw that console in person. It is sitting in a mostly empty wing off of the showroom floor/atrium. If I remember correctly, we were told that they were trying to work a deal with a museum to take it. Guess it didn't work out.

[radagast]

Guys, is it THE Rodgers from Carnegie Hall?

Also, does anybody from Hillsboro recognize that building? And is it sitting on a marble slab?

Yes, it's THE console of THE Carnegie Hall organ, MINUS ANY TONE GENERATION. It's just an empty shell. That's why the price is beyond ridiculous.

[Kurzweil]

I guess that the obvious question is to ask why the tone generators were separated from the console? Pipe organs are not usually disposed of separately from the console unless the console is hopeless, not applicable to THIS console.

[myorgan]

Pipe organs are not usually disposed of separately from the console unless the console is hopeless, not applicable to THIS console.

I thought this Rodgers was totally electronic and had no pipes because of the space?

Michael

[NoTalent]

I, too, was wondering if the tone generators were even available. Perhaps they were scrapped as deemed not worth saving, or bothering with. Remember that spectacular and huge analog Allen that apparently nobody was interested in saving?

Found this brochure about its' opening night:

https://www.virgilfoxlegacy.com/pres...dgersrep01.pdf

[Silken Path]

I thought this Rodgers was totally electronic and had no pipes because of the space?

Michael

I've read that, too. It was a feat for Rodgers at the time.

[toodles]

Tone generators may have been disposed of separately.

I don't know how much a large organ console like this would be priced at, but potentially as much as the asking price for this, and that may be the basis for the asking price.

In the mid 1980's I priced a 2-manual console from Klann at about $8,000 for the shell with pedals. I do suspect the target buyer is NOT a home-brew hauptwerk builder--more likely an actual pipe organ builder.

[michaelhoddy]

I, too, was wondering if the tone generators were even available. Perhaps they were scrapped as deemed not worth saving, or bothering with. Remember that spectacular and huge analog Allen that apparently nobody was interested in saving?

Found this brochure about its' opening night:

https://www.virgilfoxlegacy.com/pres...dgersrep01.pdf

I think that's the issue with an analog organ of this size, just like that custom 1962 Allen. I've moved large-format vintage analog studio mixing consoles, and that's a HUGE project. An analog organ of this size is several orders of magnitude greater in scope than even that.

The tone generation is not so much in a cabinet somewhere as it is literally wired into the building with the attendant complexity of hundreds to thousands of individual soldered, hard-wired connections. Un-installing this in an organized enough fashion so as to allow for saving it would require a lengthy process of disconnection, labeling, and packing. Additionally, the 40-year-old capacitors from the installation would probably need to be replaced to bring it back to spec, and the process of moving such an intricate and vast setup would create a multitude of other small issues requiring attention. All that to only have whatever 40-year-old analog technology can reproduce- that's really only good for nostalgia's sake rather than any artistic reason, and nostalgia only goes so far.

In terms of cost, billable man-hours of labor, and overall effort, it's simply more economical to replace the tone generation with something else. For exactly the same reasons it's usually more economical and far less labor-intensive to simply replace the "analog" relay and wiring on a large pipe organ with a multiplexed digital setup if the organ is removed and reinstalled elsewhere.

[NoTalent]

He claims the console connected with a single coax cable to 3 big "roll around" electronics but you're right about the amount of servicing the electronics would need. And its not really going to sound like anything if you don't have the room for all the speakers and the space for the sound to really develop, something that I think would be true of that Allen analog that's been raved about.

For price comparison, I'll point out that there is now this Allen Console that should be called "Hauptwerk Ready"
http://www.--------/itm/MIDI-Organ-C...item3f510e65ee

Almost as impressive and, though not cheap, a lot less expensive.

[Kurzweil]

I got to wondering what replaced this organ. (I do realize that it was an entirely electronic organ.) However, Carnegie has had both types. I found an article on the Carnegie organs. Here is a list that may or may not include what is there today in 2015:

Organ Specifications:
► III/78 Rodgers Instruments electronic (c.2006)
► I/5 Flentrop Orgelbouw (1993)
► V/129 Rodgers Organ Co. electronic (1974)
► II/7 Schlicker Organ Company (1970)
► IV/59 Geo. Kilgen & Son, Op. 4317 (1929)
► III/40 Hillgreen, Lane & Company, Op. 456 (1916)
► II/34 Frank Roosevelt, Op. 486 (1891)

The third one down is the topic of this thread. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that the 2006 3M digital instrument has been since replaced. Here is the entire list of specifications from which I got the excerpt: http://nycago.org/Organs/NYC/html/CarnegieHall.html

It looks like there may have been a large chamber constructed over the stage for the Kilgen that may have been later determined to have harmed the sound of the hall and subsequently removed. I read that a pipe organ is "unsuitable" for Carnegie Hall today.

[beel m]

All that to only have whatever 40-year-old analog technology can reproduce- that's really only good for nostalgia's sake rather than any artistic reason, and nostalgia only goes so far.

Quite so--- after its installation, IIRC the New York City AGO officially told C Hall management in writing that the organ "did not meet its artistic standards."
I was at the dedication- it had, to my ears, a great ensemble (with 34 tone generators, one would expect that) but the individual stops sounded unimpressive and even electronic. That in an organ which would've retailed for $250K...

R, Bill Miller Phila PA