Rodgers 805B

[kennyrayandersen]

I'm likely picking up a Rodgers 805 B on Thursday. It is broken and destined to be a VPO, so I'm good with that. Now, the trouble: the folks that had it, evidently, decided at the last minute that they didn't like the deal the organ company had given them on the trade in and decided to hold back the bench and the amplifiers... nice!

So, I have a couple of options. I could try and find the actual organ bench, but all I know is that the organ came from or near Brenham TX. Im not real sure how to track it down as there are lots of churches down that way. Of course this would be the easiest way and preferable, but I'm not sure I have enough info (the Rogers dealer here in Dallas is AWOL and not returning calls and from what I hear they've pretty much closed shop). If I'm wrong I would really like to get ahold of them as they are supposedly the ones that picked up the organ.

The other option is that I could build the bench myself, which I am capable of doing. If I have to go that way, it would be really helpful if someone has an 805 B bench that they can take some pics and dimensions off of then I could just make one like it. From the few pics I've seen the bench that goes with it looks relatively easy to build (nothing too fancy).

Any help would be appreciated. Cheers, Kenny

[jbird604]

You might check ebay, as an organ bench comes up now and then. Just be sure the bench is from a classical organ with AGO pedals. Benches off Hammond or other organs with 25 pedals are obviously not the right size or height. Also, some organ brands that have true AGO pedals still have a bench that is lower to the floor than it ought to be (Baldwin in particular). We have taken in various brands of church organs for rebuilding, and notice that the benches can vary in height by more than an inch, which makes quite a difference when you're sitting on it reaching for the pedals. But the premium organ builders all use virtually identical bench heights.

If you can't find one to suit you, you only need to build a very sturdy bench that is wide enough to span the pedalboard without touching the sides of it. I would recommend horizontal bracing underneath the edges of the seat top because you are going to be sitting right in the middle and the top will definitely sag unless it is strongly reinforced.

The seat is about 15" to 16" deep on the typical bench, though that varies as well. My Allen bench measures 26-3/8" tall, and I think Rodgers benches are about the same height. The only other need is for a "stretcher" underneath the bench that is above the pedal keys, where you can rest your heels. You might have to examine a bench in person to see just how to build that.

If in doubt, visit a church with a Rodgers organ and measure the bench. AFAIK, all Rodgers benches are identical in dimensions, except for the ones that are adjustable-height. The critical starting point for bench height is the thickness of the pedal clavier itself, which, as I said, ought to be the same in all premium organ consoles.

[kennyrayandersen]

Thanks for the post. I've been watching ebay and Craig's list for a couple of months without much success. I think in the end there is a high probability I will be making the bench. I COULD make something that was merely sturdy, but for a small amount of extra work I can just duplicate the bench if I have the dimensions and it will look all original.

I can see why this VPO thing is catching on -- I was told just to get a new main board for the organ was $2900!!! No wonder they are virtually free when they are 'broke'.

[NoTalent]

...decided to hold back the bench and the amplifiers... nice!

Don't know what they think they are going to do with that stuff. They will find out that the amps don't have the value they think they have and the bench is only of interest to people like us! I have seen benches misused as plant stands, but that was because they couldn't get rid of them any other way.

You migh try MCN Systems; I know he has had benches from time to time.
http://www.mcnsystems.com/

And he will ship.

I'm not sure you need a bench specifically for an 805 -- I would think any bench intended for an AGO console will do. For dimensions, you might look at catalogs from pipe organ supply companies, like Organ Supply Industries; they may list dimensions.

Greg

[kennyrayandersen]

Thanks again for the replies. I just found a guy that has one and has just sold it; but, he is willing to take some pics and dimensions for me. If it were me I'd throw any old thing on there, but SWMBO will want it to look like it matches as it will be going in the formal living room, which although is good-sized, looks a lot smaller with a full-sized church organ and speakers in it!

[tucsondave]

I don't know what Rodgers' policy is but if you call them with the serial number they might tell you the original purchaser. This might require a dealer or tech though.

td

[kennyrayandersen]

I have all the dimensions for the bench and I made some drawings if anyone is interested. It could probably serve anyone looking to build a AGO standard bench...

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know what Rodgers' policy is but if you call them with the serial number they might tell you the original purchaser. This might require a dealer or tech though.

td

Where would I find the serial number?

- - - Updated - - -

Thete is one on the inside of the back removeable panel -- is that it?

[jbird604]

Rodgers serial numbers are usually on the metal plate that is mounted underneath the key desk, where you will also find the model number. Serial numbers are also sometimes stamped inside the console somewhere.

All Rodgers digital organs have Roland serial numbers, which are in the following format:

First is the letter "Z" then another letter, then several numbers. The letter and number which immediately follow the "Z" are the date code, and will identify the date of the organ's manufacture, according to a chart published by Rodgers.

The original code chart that they came up with went through October 2010. Beginning in November 2010, they used a new way of coding that I'm not sure about, but something similar, just a different order.

[kennyrayandersen]

The serial number was in two places inside the case and underneathe the keyboard as you said and is: ZH90445 and the model is confirmed as an 805 B. I'll try and call Rogers tomorrow and see if they can be any help.

Also, one of the reasons I was a bit hot on the 805 B (made in '88 near as I can tell) was it was supposed to be a midi organ. I was hoping that might cut down a bit on the amount of hardware that I'd need to get the electrons to the PC.

The problem is I've heard it can be really hard to get schematics from Rodgers (any help there would be appreciated!). Also the organ was supposed to be working somewhat but as reported the amp got stripped out and the folks I got it from said that they couldn't get any noise out of it (headphones). I need to figure out if I can tap off of the midi stuff and whether enough of it is working to utilize some of the internals. I could go all the way back to the keyboards, but then I'd be into a full set of hardware...

Also I've heard that the keys are velocity sensitive, so I'm not sure if the add-on midi stuff would need to be more sophisticated to take advantage of that.

The journey begins...

[twnelson]

The Rodgers 805B is actually a mid-90s model. I'd recommend hooking up a MIDI analyzer of some sort (MidiOx for Windows or MIDIMonitor for Mac) to the MIDI out port under the keybed via a suitable adapter and see what, if anything, is output when you depress the keys, move the expression pedal, etc.

If the keyboards are velocity sensitive (it was optional on that model) it will be difficult to interface to add-on MIDI HW because of the special velocity sensing circuitry in the keyboards themselves.

--- Tom

[kennyrayandersen]

I'll tear into it in a few days and see what I can see. Funny though, there is a big 88 right below the serial number on the inside! Thought the might be the year... Any way to Gert a schematic for one of these?

[jbird604]

Tom is exactly right. The ZH9 at the beginning of the serial number indicates that this organ was built in October 1995. And it would have a very complete MIDI implementation, as did all Rodgers organs from the late 80's onward. The outgoing MIDI data will encompass all keying, expression, stops, transposer, and other console actions. So it should be ideal for driving a virtual organ program if the internal tone generation can't be made to work.

However, you can probably make it work. The most common failure in these PDI organs is the cage power supply, located at the left-hand end of the cage. It is a two-part unit, delivering +/- 12 volts from one section and a high-current, highly-regulated 5 volts from the other. Rodgers may not be able to supply the complete thing any more, and sourcing them from a third party could be pricey as well. If I were you, I'd do it with a decent ATX-style desktop computer power supply. I recently bought one from Tiger Direct for about $25 that outputs all the required voltages, including about 35 amps worth of regulated 5 volts. I bought it just for stock, in case we had such a failure. But we have used this type of supply in the past for organs and it works well. It just requires some careful re-wiring of the system.

Hard to get schematics for these organs, of course, but you can probably figure out the power supply wiring without a schematic. It ought to be rather simple and the wires will be color-coded in some obvious fashion. The power supply connects to the rest of the cage with simple Molex connectors. Just be sure to use large wire for the 5 volt line, as it will draw quite a bit of current.

It's a shame they kept the amplifer. The amp in a digital Rodgers is specifically made for these organs, and has its audio input on a large D-sub connector (like a port on the back of an older desktop computer). That connector carries the eight audio channels in balanced-line configuration, along with a signal to turn on the amp power via relays. Such an amp is quite useless for other applications, unless you go to all the trouble of making up a custom cable for it, including a proper relay voltage to turn the thing on. There are no gain controls or any other controls on the amp chassis either. So they just made trouble for you without benefitting themselves at all.

There's a slim chance you might still recover that amp, even if you had to give them $100 for it. Or you might find a used Rodgers S-800 amp on ebay, though it would be pricey.

Barring that, you can settle for the two-channel stereo auxiliary output, which will contain a proper mix of all the channels, with the left-right separation of the stops preserved. You would only need to run that signal into a suitable high-power amp driving a pair of wide-range speakers capable of handling the very low frequencies of the 32' pedal stops. To be honest, that setup might be more suitable for home use of the organ anyway.

Good luck!

[kennyrayandersen]

Thabks a mullion times over John -- that is exactly the kind of info I wasnlooking for. Also I got me one of those fancy VOMs that I can check voltage with so that shouldn't be too much trouble. If I do need a power supply -- how big of one did you get? They are usually rates by watts rayher than current-carrying capability. I'll try and get the back off of it thos coming weekend and startblooking at it. Cheers!

[kennyrayandersen]

Called Rodgers and they said they don't have any record of where their organs are installed... ??

Also, no bueno on the schematic -- got to be a Rodgets repair tech.

Bummed...


They gave me a name -- I think it is actually the guy that oicked up the organ (and kind of botxhed the deal). Well, guess I'll give him a call!

[myorgan]

They gave me a name -- I think it is actually the guy that oicked up the organ (and kind of botxhed the deal). Well, guess I'll give him a call!

Kenny,

Alternately, you can visit the MITA Tech website to find another technician in your area (http://mitatechs.org/service-locator). Perhaps they could help?

Michael