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Looking for Electronic Pipe Organ, for 650 seat church in Belchertown, MA

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  • Looking for Electronic Pipe Organ, for 650 seat church in Belchertown, MA

    Greetings and Good Morning! My thanks to davidecasteel, jbird604, indianjo, and Michael (myorgan)who answered my posts from last August!I am THRILLED to now find out our Grand Knight, Bill Bowen, of ourParish, has elected to champion a fund drive to purchase and install a suitableElectronic Pipe Organ for our 650 seat, relatively new church here inBelchertown, Massachusetts. We come back to the Forum at this time, to ask anyand all members that might have connections in the Northeast, (the closer thebetter) who know of equipment sitting idle, close by, that would be suitable for us toconsider.Geographically, we are 10miles from the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, 90 miles East of Albany,90 miles West of Boston, 45 miles Northeast of Hartford, CT, and about an hour southof the Brattleboro/Keene NH areas.

    When I last visited the Forum in August, we did see severalitems available in the 3 to 5 thousand dollar range. Our Grand Knight, Bill Bowen, who today I amgoing to invite to directly join us here in the Forum, is considering a $10,000 fund raising drive, which will allow for many good choices, and makeprovisions for delivery and set up costs.

    So…. As I mentioned last time, with only regular experienceon an Allen MDC 20…..and with only a few visits to churches with ElectronicPipe Organs, my knowledge of what a “good choice “ would be…..is very limited, and I would again, like to lean onmany of you, masters of the instrument, with far-reaching experience,to help us seek out, purchase, and install agreat choice, to fill our 650 seat worship space, (with very high ceilings).

    We eagerly look forward to any and all responses, and willkeep you posted on our success. WithGREAT LUCK….maybe the Christopher Walker Exsultet piece for the Easter Vigil this year,will be accompanied by some powerful organ sounds and thundering bass pedalsthis year!Thank You in advance for yourhelp and assistance! hilltown48

  • #2
    Hi,

    Since you are in Massachusetts, you may want to check out Marshall & Ogletree located in Needham. They used to be Rodgers dealers, but still deal in previously enjoyed Rodgers organs. I don't know what they could do for $10K, but it is worth a try. Their web-site is www.organpower.com . They have a list of used organs on that site.

    AV

    Comment


    • #3
      Hilltown,

      There was a 3-manual instrument near Worcester available about 1 year ago, but I haven't seen anything about it since. Regular communication is what it takes to find anything close to you. Since you last post, I've seen 2 or 3 possible instruments you could have used (one free), but since you weren't on my radar, I had forgotten about you. Sorry.:'(

      Michael
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank You, arie v --- and thank you Michael for replying! We will check out that Marshall & Ogletree people.....and probably check out what's wandering around E Bay. Please, is there a particular spot in the Forum where I could bounce some details about some potential ones we find and get some feedback??? Or is it best just to send out a new post? Thanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by hilltown48 View Post
          Please, is there a particular spot in the Forum where I could bounce some details about some potential ones we find and get some feedback??? Or is it best just to send out a new post? Thanks.
          Hilltown,

          Here is as good a place as any. Let me also check CraigsList, now that you've re-established contact. There was one in Eastern NY (Troy area) a few months ago. I'll see if it's still listed.

          That said, however, at $10K, you will probably have enough money to get a new, or near-new organ for your church.

          Michael
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

          Comment


          • #6
            Michael,

            Are you smoking something?

            I would really want to know about these new $10K church organs you are referring to. I would be able to sell them in a heartbeat. I don't believe either Allen or Rodgers have anything to offer at minimum of at least $25K to a church that seats over 500 people. A proper church organ requires generous audio, proper installation and voicing. I don't believe even the European vendors sell church organs now for $10K. Maybe there is a mystery manufacturer of church organs in China - but I haven't heard of any.

            And there are not many near new organs floating around either. If we consider near new to be 5 or 6 years old, then I would say there are extremely few for sale, as sales were by then already way down, and church organs tend to be long term purchases. If were talking15 to 20 years old, yes then you may find something.

            I stil like you idea of new organs for $10K. I just need to know where to find them

            AV

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by arie v View Post
              Are you smoking something?

              I stil like you idea of new organs for $10K. I just need to know where to find them
              Arie,

              I NEVER reveal my sources.;-) Seriously, fair point about the size of the installation. Somewhere recently, I saw new Allen organs listed with prices on the webpage (I should have known that was an issue when I saw it) for between $10K-$12K, so I made a mental note of it and went on in my browsing. In retrospect, it must have been some sort of "dealer" who listed them with prices. Of course, you're right about not seeing prices on any "official" Allen page. Then again, you are looking at Canadian dollars.;-)

              It was probably another vendor's website, but I also should have realized a $10K organ wouldn't fill a 650-seat auditorium--even an Allen!

              Michael

              P.S. I don't smoke--anything!X-( Not an appropriate comment.
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

              Comment


              • #8
                There are more used Allens on ebay than ever. Granted, many of them still have piece-in-the-sky, outlandish prices...especially some of the old, small, analogs which honestly, are worth whatever someone will give you to take them away! But our friend in Florida has "make an offer" on all of his used digitals, and even his asking prices are somewhat more realistic than they were 3-5 years ago. For example, an MDS Theater III he recently listed at $9500...but he used to be asking $15K for those. It wouldn't surprise me if he accepted $5000 or so. I'd start by offering him roughly 30-40% of what he's usually asking.
                Take this for example:
                Click image for larger version

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                If someone got an MDS-8 for $1000-$1500, that's a pretty good price. I think about 5 years ago someone on ebay got ~$3000 for one of the small single digit MDS models...proving their prices continue to fall. A reminder that the most ever for an MDS model on ebay was pre-recession, in 2007, for a huge 3 manual organ in a Chicago area church. Went for 12K including 12 speakers and a sub.
                The key is patience.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by circa1949 View Post
                  If someone got an MDS-8 for $1000-$1500, that's a pretty good price. I think about 5 years ago someone on ebay got ~$3000 for one of the small single digit MDS models...proving their prices continue to fall. A reminder that the most ever for an MDS model on ebay was pre-recession, in 2007, for a huge 3 manual organ in a Chicago area church. Went for 12K including 12 speakers and a sub.
                  Circa,

                  Good points. However, to Arie's point, would an MDS-8 fill a 650-seat auditorium with the basic amplifier package, or would it require a supplemental setup? Of course, I'm still loathe to purchase anything in Florida--it's too far away for the prices asked.

                  Michael
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank You everybody, for your very valuable feedback............... I have just seen an ALLEN T 12 A on E Bay..... no info on what year of manufacture, or what power capability..... they want $ 1,500 for it--- it is located in Wisconsin, I believe, pretty far away from our Western Mass locale.......... and it is described as a " Home/Church " Organ............... somehow... I'm not seeing that filling a 650 seat church....without a ga-zillion watts of additional amplification. Has anybody ever played an Allen T 12A, or knows some of its specifications?? I suspect it is likely best to walk by this particular beast.....but it would be great to learn more about it from some pros, first. Thanks. Hilltown 48

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hilltown48 View Post
                      I suspect it is likely best to walk by this particular beast.....but it would be great to learn more about it from some pros, first. Thanks. Hilltown 48
                      Hilltown,

                      Your suspicion is probably correct. I believe the T-12A had internal speakers, but with the possibility of external speakers. That is 1960s technology, though--no digital. I hope that answers your question.

                      Michael
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A T-12A is a very small organ, not even AGO-sized, and quite limited by modern standards. It has a single rank of flute oscillators, and the various tones are just simulated using combinations of flute pitches. Everything comes out of one speaker cabinet, one amp channel. Not much tonal color or variety, though a skillful player can get some music out of it, just like a skillful player can work wonders with a one-rank pipe organ. But most people can't do that! ... I'd pass on it for sure. The seller is unlikely to get more than a couple hundred dollars for it, which is truly all it's worth.

                        I'm confident you can get a pretty good organ for $10K, even in your area. In recent months, our little company (in Arkansas) has installed a couple of really nice three-manual digital organs for under $12K, delivered, setup, voiced, and with a warranty. I think M&O or someone in your state can surely provide you with a nice organ for $10K.

                        Buying on ebay or craigslist from an unknown seller can be quite perilous. No telling whether it will actually work or not, and you'll get zero help installing and voicing it, and certainly no warranty. There are a few folks selling on ebay who are just barely better than con artists, who pass off their organs as "like new" or "splendid" when in fact they may be pretty shabby. I encourage you to work with a reputable tech or refurbishing shop such as M&O. You could very well learn an expensive lesson trying to get one from an individual.

                        That said, I'm aware that several of our good forum members have done very well, going out in their own truck, picking up an Allen or Rodgers for a song and trucking it home to do their own restoration and setup. That's great for a hobby, and even works for some of us who play in churches, where we can get our own church a better organ for very little money. But we are able and willing to spend the time and go through the learning curve. You need an organ for your church that works when you get it, and will be reliable week after week. That's why I suggest that you go through a tech or shop.

                        I sure wish you weren't so far away. You are just the type of customer we are looking for! Unfortunately, we don't sell that far away.
                        John
                        ----------
                        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hilltown,

                          I just found the organ advertisement that was year you--it was in Albany, but has now been removed from CraigsList. Check your private messages for links to other organs currently available. Granted, some are almost 500 miles away, but are free, whereas others are closer but more pricey. It all depends on what your ability is to obtain an organ vs. your ability to pay--both for the organ and the shipping (if applicable).

                          In my case, I obtained the Symphony's organ for free from a church near Mobile, Alabama. On the other hand, I obtained other organs from Charlotte, NC area; Green Bay, WI area, and Troy, NY area. Prices for those organs varied, and I negotiated for all of them. And yes, I use all except for the Symphony's organ in the course of a week--they've all been placed and are being used.

                          Best of luck with your search.

                          Michael
                          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I browsed M&O and see that they have several used Rodgers organs ready to sell and they are working on some others. So you might well find a superb organ with them within your budget. I know those guys are experts, they are both excellent organists themselves, and they wouldn't lead you astray. A 650 seat building is pretty big, so you do need something above the low end, and will probably require a good size external speaker setup using several audio channels.

                            It's wonderful to know that a fairly new church is enthusiastic about having a fine organ to anchor their music! May you prosper and your tribe increase!

                            Michael is one of the forum members who has been successful in finding organs for little cost from individuals or churches, and has done an excellent job of restoring and setting up his instruments. You might be so lucky, but organ history is also littered with the remains of projects that didn't work out, organs that couldn't be fixed, or that simply didn't match up with the environment in which they were installed. So proceed with caution.
                            John
                            ----------
                            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
                              Michael is one of the forum members who has been successful in finding organs for little cost from individuals or churches, and has done an excellent job of restoring and setting up his instruments.
                              Gee, thanks John!:embarrassed: I think.

                              As an alternative, I did recommend the possibility of a theatre organ. The Allen theatre organs also have the same classical sounds as the church organ line. I'd be curious to hear what others think of that idea.

                              Check out this old organ in New York on *Bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLEN-ORGAN-/141878382993. There is a dealer somewhere in upstate NY that occasionally has some nice instruments available for more money than I'd ever like to pay, but not as much as some flippers in the extreme Southeast. This one in Indianapolis probably has enough oomph for the size of your auditorium, but it is OLD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-digita...-/281907071288.

                              Michael
                              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                              Comment

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