Which of these Allens would you say is more the typical organ for a country church?

[AllenMDS]

Like a small Baptist or Methodist Church in the country.

Would you say the more typical organ in that case is an Allen MOS-120 series, or an ADC-420/430 or MDS-5/10?

I'd say it just depends on the church. But it seems to often be a 2-manual, self-contained stoptab Allen:

[organman95]

Actually I'm thinking a Baldwin or Conn of similar size to the ADC-420

[radagast]

The MDS models will be newer and sound better. However, a country church might appreciate a model with a "tremulants full" tab.

[AllenMDS]

Actually I'm thinking a Baldwin or Conn of similar size to the ADC-420

In my neck of the woods it's mostly 2-manual, stoptab Allens of some sort.

[toodles]

Of the models you list, it's more a matter of when they purchased the organ--1970's would be a MOS small model such as the 120; early 1980's the ADC 420/430; 1990's the MDS 5 or 10.

The MOS 120 has a bit more comprehensive stoplist than the other models, but wouldn't provide much in the way of ensemble and would not have celeste. The ADC and MOS would have very similar stoplists.

[myorgan]

Like a small Baptist or Methodist Church in the country.

Would you say the more typical organ in that case is an Allen MOS-120 series, or an ADC-420/430 or MDS-5/10?

Could you provide a bit more context to your question. For example, which one would they most likely have vs. which one would they probably purchase?

Much of the answer to the question depends on whether your context is past, present, or future. Did you get asked to play for a church and are wondering which organ they are most likely to have? Or did you get asked which organ a church should most likely purchase of the models mentioned?

IMHO the one they should purchase would be the most recent technology in the series you proffered. On the other hand, if you had included Renaissance and Heritage models, I might have shied away from those models in favor of older models because the older models are more "friendly" to a service person a small church would likely have available. The Renaissance models require the Dove software to voice.

Not sure if this helps, but . . . .

Michael

[AllenMDS]

Could you provide a bit more context to your question. For example, which one would they most likely have vs. which one would they probably purchase?

Much of the answer to the question depends on whether your context is past, present, or future. Did you get asked to play for a church and are wondering which organ they are most likely to have? Or did you get asked which organ a church should most likely purchase of the models mentioned?

IMHO the one they should purchase would be the most recent technology in the series you proffered. On the other hand, if you had included Renaissance and Heritage models, I might have shied away from those models in favor of older models because the older models are more "friendly" to a service person a small church would likely have available. The Renaissance models require the Dove software to voice.

Not sure if this helps, but . . . .

Michael

I was just curious, based on what I have seen.

[musikfan]

The MDS models will be newer and sound better. However, a country church might appreciate a model with a "tremulants full" tab.

radagast... LOL! I grew up in a Baptist church and our dear organist played on one of the early 1970's Allen organs. She used the tremulant ALL THE TIME....sounded like we were in a roller skating rink. That particular organ had two huge tone cabinets with the circular rotating speakers and then the traditional speakers mounted on the wall. Anytime I hear a hymn played with the tremulant, it always generates a host of memories.

[jbird604]

It's bound to vary all over the place, depending on the part of the country you're in, the sophistication of the area's musicians, the wealth of the people, the proximity of the various dealers.

Around here (Arkansas) when we walk into a country church (by which I mean a church not inside a city, not even in a small town), we're lucky if we don't see some old Thomas or Lowrey or Kimball or other such questionable thing. (I'll refrain from using the more common designation for these instruments, a phrase that includes the word "piece".) A luckier congregation might have a Hammond L or M model, or perhaps a Baldwin spinet from the 60's that has a fairly decent analog sound with a smattering of tonal variety and a few stops above 8' pitch.

Not that we never see a respectable MOS Allen or self-contained Rodgers. In fact, a number of the rural Catholic churches have these, and some even have more modern instruments from Allen, Rodgers, or Johannus. But these are the exception when you are outside the cities.

Unfortunately, even in the cities, especially in the small towns, there are still a LOT of the above-mentioned pieces. I can only assume that back in the 60's and the early 70's there were a lot of unscrupulous sales people working the little furniture outlets and entertainment stores that carried cheap little Thomas, Kimball, Lowrey, etc. And these people would gladly sell a little church one of their toy organs and tell them it was next thing to a pipe organ, just smaller and cheaper. And worse yet, the musicians who were to play these toys had never played any kind of organ at all and had no idea that what they were getting was so utterly unworthy.

Another thing the sales people forgot to mention is that analog organs need an occasional tuning. So you frequently find these little visitors from the underworld so wretchedly out of tune that a musical scale is hardly discernible when played upon the keys.

Anyway, enough of that rant. I hope that where you live all the little churches out in the country have good organs!

[myorgan]

I had a unique experience in that my father filled in for many churches in a particular geographic area of New England where I grew up. The organs for small churches were:

• Colby Siding--Hammond L-Series spinet with external Leslie.
• New Sweden (Baptist)--None, but a Baldwin Digital was donated by a former parishoner. I played the dedication concert.
• New Sweden (Lutheran)--None, but purchased an Allen Digital. My wife and I played the dedication concert.
• Stockholm--None.
• Garland Plantation--Cheap Conn or Baldwin w/horizontal rocker tabs.
• Easton--Lowrey TLO or DSO Spinet.
• Blaine--None.
• Blaine (yes, there were 2 Baptist churches there)--None, but they purchased an Allen Digital. I played the dedication concert.
• Crouseville--Hammond B3 or A100. This was the first church organ I ever played for a church service. Scary! Someone had to show me how to start it.
• Limestone--Hammond full-sized organ w/Leslie. Something lesser than a B3, but I'm not sure what.
• Westmanland--None, to my knowledge.
• Mapleton--Allen TC-1.
• Washburn--Hammond full-sized organ w/Leslie.
• Air Force Base--Hammond full-sized organ w/Leslie.
• Grand Falls--Folding field pump organ that replaced the theatre organ that quit and couldn't be repaired.
• Ortonville--Some spinet. Maybe a Conn, Baldwin, Thomas, or something like that. I never could play it.
• Littleton--Allen TC-1 or TC-3

So, the state of organs in small Baptist country churches of a particular geographic area of New England tend to be split between Allen and Hammond, with smatterings of other instruments thrown in. Nearly all of these churches would be hard pressed to fit 60-100 people in them.

Probably more information than you were expecting, but there it is.

Michael

[AllenMDS]

radagast... LOL! I grew up in a Baptist church and our dear organist played on one of the early 1970's Allen organs. She used the tremulant ALL THE TIME....sounded like we were in a roller skating rink. That particular organ had two huge tone cabinets with the circular rotating speakers and then the traditional speakers mounted on the wall. Anytime I hear a hymn played with the tremulant, it always generates a host of memories.

I generally do not use the tremulant for hymns.

[davidecasteel]

Not exactly OT, but most of the rural Baptist churches I have been in didn't have an organ at all--just an old upright piano with a pianist who probably couldn't actually read music but played the hymns by ear in Gospel style (flashy chords).

David

[jbird604]

It's quite amazing to realize how backward the music tends to be in small rural churches, compared to larger and more urban churches. Michael's list includes some of the OSO's I have seen, among others. ("organ shaped objects") And I agree with David about the number of rural churches, especially Baptist, with no organ at all, just a piano. Until 25 or 30 years ago I used to see a lot of old upright pianos in country churches, but most of these have been replaced with newer pianos, often sadly cheap ones.

The state of "church music" in rural America, especially certain parts of the south, is quite appalling. You can't place all the blame on the rural people themselves, who usually do the best they can with what they have to work with. A number of factors came together which produce the present situation. Steeply declining rural population has left many communities inhabited by only a handful of folks, mostly elderly and in some cases very poor and under-educated. This has led to the decline in church attendance, paucity of financial resources, and inability to purchase new instruments.

Add to this a general lack of music education in the public schools, and a smattering of mis-education in the form of traveling Gospel music shows, the Stamps-Baxter "convention" singing influence, a misguided desire to "modernize" the music with guitars and other trappings of contemporary worship, and furniture stores in past decades having sold so many cheap toy organs to churches -- and you have the ingredients that led to the present situation.

There are bright spots, with the occasional naturally-talented musician rising up in a small church, hearing and learning to play better music and lifting the musical situation in one particular church, sometimes even influencing churches in a wider area. My little business has been struggling to convince little churches with those wretched old Thomas and Lowrey mouse-infested spinets to move up to a used Allen or Rodgers organ from the 70's and 80's, or even one of the better Baldwin analogs or some other decent organ with genuine church organ sound. We do sell one from time to time, and sometimes feel that we've helped raise the level of the music in one of these churches. Sometimes, though, there is a player who will in fact make no better music on their new Allen digital than they did on the old pump organ. (My cousin Yvonna, whom some of you are acquainted with, is a prime example.)

[nullogik]

(My cousin Yvonna, whom some of you are acquainted with, is a prime example.)

Lol, I hope Yvonna is enjoying her Allen and that her foot is still firmly on the Swell pedal. I do enjoy reading about her and Aunt Minnie :-)

[jbird604]

Since I moved away I don't hear much from Aunt Minnie or cousin Y. I think they are still holding forth on the piano and organ at their little country church that went big-time. Maybe I'll get a chance to check up on them soon and give an update.