If you write to George Bayley, the US Consultant for Copeman Hart at: [email protected], he will surely send you a copy of the Keble College CD, free of charge. I received both of them without having to pay anything at all.
FYI, Allen quit artificially superimposing attack transients many, many years ago. In fact, they were using full-length samples in custom organs in 1985, long before Rodgers had anything digital. Likewise, Allen's formerly limited polyphony is a thing of the very distant past. You are comparing the Rodgers of today with the Allen of the early 1980s.
khutson wrote:
The new Trillium series by Rodgers is I believe the finest for the money. Why? upgradable technology, samples that include initial speech unlike its closest competitor that superimposes it artificially, Rodgers has much more polyphony than Allen...
Yes, I can readily agree that the Phoenix organs are extremely well voiced to sound exactly like an authentic pipe organ. I put a CD in yesterday of a Phoenix organ, and to be honest I really didn't notice how close just exactly what CD I had put in to play as I was doing computer work, and wanted some background music. I immediately in the theater of my mind went to the Sanctuary of the Presbyterian church as I thought I was hearing a pipe organ. Later, when I reconized a particular piece being playing I then knew I had put the CD in to play that the Phoenix Organ Company had send me for a critical review of the tones of their organs. I have a solid ear for authentic tone, and can tell what key a piece of music is being played in at a given time. So, Phoenix gets the #1 one place now in my interest of the electronic organs. I, too, have in the past been a good fan of Allen as well as Rodgers, but have heard only one Johannus which is in a local church. It was nice indeed, but not what I expected in an organ that elaborate. I was a bit disappointed in it for the authentic pipe organ sound. Oh, yes, it is wonderful that some companys take pride yet in building their organs from the console on down. Allen seems to have made a solid long lasting product, but as mentioned about Hammond did too at one time, and I have heard they out sold all other brands of electronic organs by a very wide margin. I hope that they Phoenix Organ Company continues to make an excellent impression on the MKT, and also keep up their solidly built product from the console on down.
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
Like the great Phoenix of mythology that rose from the ashes. I think the Phoenix Organs are today's answer to an electonic organ with authentic pipe organ sound. They are that good indeed. I am totally amazed at their tone via my CD system.
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
Although I have been most impressed by the organs that are produced by Copeman Hart (having actually played one, I can say that their recordings were not engineered), I have also been thoroughly convinced by Phoenix's sample recording. In listening to the opening piece by Pachelbel on the sample CD, I noticed that the organ sounded almost identical to an Aeolian-Skinner on which I regularly play. The advantage of Phoenix (or so I gathered from the CD), is that they tune each digital "pipe" so that some of the stops are not quite in tune with one another; this makes for a most realistic pipe organ-like sound. The only thing that I would have to say is that I would have to actually play a Phoenix to be completely convinced. I have had experiences where I have listened to a sample CD from other digital organ builders, and have gone to play one of their instruments (thinking that it will sound identical to the recording), and have been in disbelief as to the lack of quality. (One such organ sounded worse than the 1970 Allen that I have at my disposal, whose Diapasons are surprisingly pipelike!) I would certainly be interested in playing a Phoenix, if there is one in New England.
I saw an Allen Renaisance(sp) R-311 on EBAY, no less, for $24,995.00 and on www.Theatreorgans.com an Allen GW-IV(George Wright 4 manual) for $85,000.00, while back on EBAY another GW-IV down in Hunstville, TX--North West of Houston going for $95,000.00----Will this fit into your price range? It's like buying a second home-way out of my league. I love the sound, but can do with something different. I've heard that the Phoenix is around $25,000-$40,000.00 depending on how ornate your console is, and type of voicing. Still out of my budget. I was looking at a Conn 653 3-manual with all the speakers and even a bunch of spare parts, located just outside of San Diego. You can see it at www.theatreorgans.com under classifieds. You can simplify the search by moving down to where you can select 'to buy' or 'to sell'---select sell, then move down to type/brand. Enter Conn and you will get a list of about 25-30 items. The 653 is listed about 2/3rds the way down, as 'Reduced Price to $4750.00' Only 653 on the site. I've drooled over it for weeks. Send Doug(the owner)an email--he has encouraged me to come 'visit' the organ.
As you may have noticed----quite a difference in prices!
I'd Say Allen! No if'in, and'in or but'in about it!
WoW! For someone to have that kind of sound and quality even in their home! by All Means!
Remember when Schoeber Organs where the home installation!! Were they the industry leader way back when to have the for sight to see where the industry was headed!
If you are looking for a good, relatively inexpensive instrument, you might want to purchase a used pre-"sampling technology" or early digital organ by Allen. Although these instruments are somewhat dated in the bells and whistles that they offer, the sound quality is excellent, in some ways. I am the organist of a church which will soon be replacing its 1970 Allen 3-manual with a pipe organ. I have found the general intonation of the Principals to be almost comparable to a pipe organ, in that the loudness of each of the notes is not exactly the same (or so it sounds), and the keys do not produce an immediate response. This organ has seldom required a service visit. I was also the organist of a church which owned a 1978 Allen Digital MDC Classic 20, which had a chiff switch that produced a very realistic intonation, when used with the "random motion" switch. It, too, required few service visits.
I agree that Schober was in its day ahead of the competition and provided a quality instrument at low cost (by offering it as kits for home assembly). I have a Schober Recital model that I am attempting to upgrade to use a crystal oscillator and Top Octave Synthesizer (TOS) chip to feed the original octave dividers and tone shapers. The prognosis is good, but I'm not working on it very fast. The concept has been tested and works, but I don't have all of it working yet (power supply problems).
In case anyone else out there has a Schober and was stranded when the company ceased operations in the late 1970s, here is a web site devoted to information and parts exchange on all Schober instruments: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~pastark/schober.html .
While stationed in Germany in the late 1970s one of the chapels there had an Allen digital organ. I don't know the model number, but it had a punched card reader mechanism at the right of the manuals that could be used to load up to 4 selected additional voices into the instrument. Although Allen did not publish any instructions on how to develop and encode new voices using this input device, I was then employed by the Air Force as a computer programmer and had ready access to card punch machines, so I set myself the task of determining how the encoding worked and how to create and modify the voice cards, and I succeeded. I doubt that this information (how to do it) would be of any use to anyone any more, since I don't think that there exist any card punch machines in working order (except possibly at the IBM archives and the Library of Congress), but it was an interesting project.
To John Foss,
You have a Viscount and an Ahlborn archive. How do they sound together and separately? I am thinking about adding a Ahlborn archive to my midi keyboards for playing at home for just playing at home for pleasure. My synths have some nice 'full ranks' sounds but that is it. I usually play thru headphones so I don't disturb anyone, so that is how I use the Ahlborn.
I have played the Allen CD for many and many can not tell the difference. These are experienced enthusiast listening and they are amazed that Allen has taken the level it has with the digital isntrument.
Chasa: I'm in a situation where I need a practice organ here. Two weeks ago I was watching Ebay when a 1984 Rodgers Windsor 840, 3 man. stop tab with a hugh spec, popped up at a give away price. I thought about it for a minute, then clicked Buy It Now. I was the only one who saw the add and I feel like I "stole" the organ, considering that it included ddelivery. It's on it's way here now and I have very high hopes for it.
This is a large city, but organ maintenance is virtually non-existant. Since this is an analog organ, am I in real trouble if I try to do any of the voicing myself? How about cutting the sound back? It goes in my living room, but I hear that it is up to full dymanics. You said that Rodgers organs have some problems, but that is another essay. I'd be awfully interested in what you have to say. If there is something I need to be aware of, I'd like to deal with it up front. Thanks.
I am blessed to have an Allen 3m/AP-31 in my home. I just like the digital organ sounds of the Allen better than the Rodgers. The wood keys feel good, too.
>..."I would certainly be interested in playing a Phoenix, if there is one in New England...."
Organist19,
If you haven't played a Phoenix yet, you should call Jim Anderson at Phoenix in Toronto, ON. Depending on where you are in N.E. you are only about 2-3 hours from them. Call Jim at 1(705)750-1257.
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