Voicing an Allen MADC-3

[kfussy63]

Good Evening,

I currently play an Allen MAD-3 / 3160A (draw knobs) at a local church on a regular basis. I believe it was purchased in the mid to late 80's. It exists in a space that has a lot of reverb, which I like. In my time playing the organ yet to play the organ postlude with the expression pedals open. The organ itself packs a punch and has a lot of power.

With that said, I am wondering if this particular model has voicing capabilities? We are attempting to see if the organ can be "rounded out" in it's tone and speaking with some stops, especially the Mixtures. The Principals seem muddy. The speakers are mounted on either side of the sanctuary, facing the front of the sanctuary. The organ console is located at the front of the church about 20 feet from the sanctuary.

I'm hoping that the organ has the capability to be voiced and or adjusted. Any experience in the area of voicing would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Kevin

[tucsondave]

Maybe this will get you started.

td

3160 Voicing Guide.txt

3160 contols.pdf

[kfussy63]

TD,

Thanks for the information. This is a start and appreciate it.

Kevin

[arie v]

Hi,

This organ is what I call a screw driver adjust organ.

Allen has grouped together 5 or 6 stops, and you can message each group with a volume control, and some tone controls.

Actually Allen did a pretty good job of pre-mixing each group of stops so it makes sense. Of course having those controls for each stop would be better, but I guess for mid 80s technology what they did was good.

Once you hsve the group with the Gt 8' Principal in it sorted out, try to balance the next group to the first group. Try to get the Great Principal chorus as best as you can.

When you have finished roughing in the groups, play the organ, see how things gell or don't, make small adjustments as needed.

If the organ is presently on the loud side, start by setting the first group (with the Gt 8'Principal) somewhat softer, and balance the rest of the groups accordingly.

I generally have had good success when re-voicing these organs. It does not take long to do it either.

AV

[toodles]

If the entire organ is too loud, the best place to start is by reducing the volume controls on each of the 4 amplifier channels. The knobs have setting numbers, so if you write down the numbers where you start you can return there if you need too.

On the cage controls, there is a Bass, Treble, Midrange, and gain control for each of 6 channels. Two for the swell stops, two for the great/pedal stops, and one each for each alterable voice.

[kfussy63]

AV,

After all is said and done, I would like for the organ to have a good solid Principle chorus. As it is now, the 8' Principle sounds weak and muddy by itself. I imagine the sound to be as if it were a single 8' Principle pipe speaking. The Mixtures on the organ, I hope, can be rounded out. As they sound now they seem to be not blending but speak louder. I will need to adjust everything. To my ear it doesn't seemed balanced. I know for sure that nothing has been done to the organ since it's installation back in the 80's. Your information and guidance is helpful.

Kevin

[kfussy63]

Good Morning,

I should be able to play the great organ as if there were no expression on it as with a pipe organ. Therefore adjusting the volume / voicing so that it speaks naturally without being abrasive or too loud. The outcome would be a well balanced organ that is pleasing to the ear. I will adjust the volume downward to see if that works, but I think that the making adjustments across the board will be more beneficial.

The 8' Trumpet on the Swell has a great presence and seems to be set as a solo stop because its louder than the rest. Is this typical for this model?

The bass in the pedal division needs to be boosted a bit more too, just seems present but not pew shaking either. Overall, your advice and the advice of AV is very helpful. I may need to have one of the other organists help in this in order to keep me honest about my hearing.

Kevin

[toodles]

The 3160 should have no trouble being adjusted to sound as you want. Check the speakers to make sure there is no foam rot, this can occur in the woofers and the midrange speakers. If the midranges are shot, it would explain a rather tubby sound and might leave the mixtures rather assertive. Certainly if the midrange surrounds are bad the tonal balance of the organ will be upset.

The Swell 8' Trompette on this model is voiced as a solo stop, but the finishing controls can make make a big difference in the sound, but the adjustments affect other stops, too. so if you're looking for a more mellow stop, there are tone cards that can provide this.

The voices on this model are separated as follows:

Channel 1 (TG-3 Board
Posaune 16
Spitzflote 4
Krummhorn 8
Super Octave 2
Diapason 16
Principal 8
Bourdon 16
Chimes

Channel 2 (TG-3 Board)
Basson 16
Clairon 4
Terz 1-3/5
Blockflote 2
Quintaten 16
Koppelflote 4
Gedackt 8
Viola 8


Channel 3 (XP-1 Board)
Mixture III (Swell)
Nasat 2-2/3
Spitzprinzipal 4
Viola Celeste 8
Trompette 8

Channel 4 (XP-1 Board)
Mixture III (Pedal)
Waldflote 2
Octave 4
Rohrflote 8
Mixture IV

[myorgan]

To my ear it doesn't seemed balanced. I know for sure that nothing has been done to the organ since it's installation back in the 80's.

Kevin,

Assuming the organ was installed correctly when first located in the church, rather than relying on your ears regarding the sound, assume it was voiced correctly and balanced correctly when it was first installed. Personally, I'd check the other advice people have given (i.e. checking the speakers, surrounds, etc.) before beginning to voice the organ. Then if the sound is still unacceptable, proceed with voicing.

You are correct in that the Principal Chorus should have some sparkle rather than be muddy. Then again, if the people present at the time of the installation insisted the organ be subdued (muddy according to your description), the voicing may not have been done correctly at the beginning.

Best of luck with the organ. You have 3-4 excellent sources of information providing what you need. Please keep us posted.

Michael

P.S. Toodles--Wouldn't that organ have accordion surrounds? OTOH, the dealer may have put on HC-12s rather than HC-14 or HC-15 speakers.

[toodles]

Usually the 3160 would have had HC14/15s (cloth surround) but without a 32' stop, the dealer could have substituted HC-12's (foam surround). In any case, the midranges are foam surround Peerless units.

[kfussy63]

Contributors,

I must agree that checking everyone of the speakers is a great consideration. After all they've been in service for over 25 years and am sure they haven't been looked at since. All four speakers are mounted on the sides of the sanctuary which would require a good size ladder to inspect them. After looking at how the stops are separated it makes sense that some of the stops aren't in balance with the rest due to how the Allen was configured from the factory. I will check everything out to make sure nothing is out of the ordinary with the speakers and then work our way down from there.

This is certainly great advice and in every case I learn something from you guys!! :->

Kevin