Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Transient Suppressors...

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Transient Suppressors...

    There was only one thread I could find on this subject, so I'm going to expand my question on this subject. I'm getting ready to acquire an Allen 122C. Does this instrument naturally come with a transient suppressor, or will it require one? I always thought that these were installed because the organ pulled so much juice, but it appears that they are simply to prevent any power surges? I was thinking that maybe this one wouldn't need one since it's smaller??

    Thank you all....
    Craig

    Hammond L143 with Leslie 760

  • #2
    The S100 amp has nothing in the way of surge supression. It does have a turn on pop eliminator, which has nothing to do with power line transients. It is an op amp whose gain goes very low until a capacitor charges up.
    I would recommend at the time of updating the electrolytic caps in these units, a MOV surge supressor be installed between line and neutral, and between neutral and analog ground, of the type sold for $.60 by newark digikey or mouser. In the western hemisphere use a 150 v rating, in the eastern hemisphere use a 300 v rating. The 15 mm devices have 2-3 times the energy capacity of the 7 mm units, and cost about $.15 more. These are listed under TVS in newark's selection tables.
    If you have 50' of speaker lines strung around the building, I would also recommend putting 75 v or 150 v units between speaker hot and return. The output transistors are rated about 4 v Veb but the rail voltages are 35 so you can't go below about 50 v supressors. If the speakers were in the organ I would forget that.
    Allen USPS3 used in later series does have NTC thermistors to cut the current demand when first turned on, which have a max rating of 2 a, so they also use them as overcurrent sacrifice parts. The location requires extensive disassembly to replace however, designed to fail and not be repaired IMHO; only by board replacement.
    city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

    Comment


    • #3
      Allen supplied an independent transient suppressor for their digital organs--I don't know if it was from the beginning of production, but it might have been that early.

      In any case, you'll want to use a transient suppressor to prevent noise spikes and power surges from damaging the organ. The organ does not have one built in, and in any case, you want it as a sacrificial safety device. This has nothing to do with the power draw of the organ, but to protect the organ from spikes and surges created outside the organ.

      If you need an aftermarket one, I use ISOBAR products, available in many places, including Amazon.com.

      Comment


      • #4
        Transient voltage surge suppression (TVSS) can be a complicated topic. Claims by manufacturers in the advertising and on labels can be very misleading. Most people think they are fully protected by buying a plug strip with surge protection at Office Depot if it has a UL 1449 label but that is not the case. Many of these devices are poorly made and only offer very basic protection along with a grand illusion of protection for serious voltage surges.

        Lightning strikes on a building or very close by can cause damage to equipment in multiple ways. As an electrical engineer designing control systems, I've been specifying surge protection devices for my clients for the past 30 years. But my warning to my clients, even after they have spent thousands of dollars on surge protection equipment, is that your best and final protection is your insurance policy. That's because even the finest surge protection technology cannot shield equipment from the voltage pulse induced on every wire in the building and inside the equipment during a very close strike.

        That said, if the surge is caused by a lightning strike at a distance or from transient voltage spikes caused by the power company switching generators and transmission lines, you can take steps to keep those surges out of expensive equipment, including electronic organs, pipe organs with solid-state control systems, video projection and PA systems in churches.

        The price for the surge protection should roughly track the cost of the equipment being protected up to a limit. Some of my work is on houses (mansions, actually) that have a $5,000 surge protection unit at the service entrance. But that house will have a 1,200 or 1,600 Amp 3-phase electrical service. Some churches have a similarly large power service.

        Since voltages can also be induced in the actual wiring of the building after the service entrance, we always put high quality secondary surge protectors on the 20-Amp circuits feeding the home theater and other concentrations of electronic equipment in a residence. That protection is hard-wired on the feeds from the breaker panel right before the receptacles at the equipment. It usually in a box about 6"x6"x6".

        If I had a $50,000+ electronic organ or a pipe organ with a solid-state relay system in a church, I'd be advising them to put in some serious permanent hard-wired surge protection for it. We also put low-voltage surge protection on control wiring going from the main control unit to remote units if the location has a lot of lightning strikes.

        A $100,000 warranty sounds nice but I certainly would not depend on it. if you scored a used $25,000 Allen organ for $10,000, they might pay you the purchase cost if you're lucky.

        For more modest installations and at home there are scaled down solutions costing less but still providing a heck of a lot more protection than a Belkin plug strip with some MOVs in it that cost $29.95 at Office Depot. My own home has a $350 surge protection unit mounted right on the main breaker panel. Then each of my areas of electronics concentration (home office, home theater and room with organs) has high quality (about $90 each) secondary surge protection connected right before the regular plug strips.

        Quality surge protection has multiple modes of protection and multiple protection pathways. Some units have gas tubes (slow acting but can handle high current), silicon avalanche diodes and MOVs. Each works in a different way and at a different speed. You need to protect line-to-neutral, line-to-ground and ground-to-neutral pathways. That's why quality surge protection costs more. A superior combination of devices with multiple modes of protection usually does not fit inside a plug strip so a larger enclosure is needed.

        If the surge voltage is high enough, it can jump across power switches that have closely-spaced contacts. Unplugging your equipment (or keeping it unplugged unless it is in use if it is not hard-wired) if you have enough warning and are on the premises is even better than relying on a surge protection device. But as I said earlier, with a direct strike on the building all bets are off.

        Every installation is different. For professional liability reasons I won't make recommendations on here for specific brands or models but in general you get what you pay for and in the case of surge protection, the more expensive units from reputable manufacturers give better protection.

        As always, Wikipedia has some useful information about the topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surge_protector
        Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Steinway AR Duo-Art 7' grand piano, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico grand piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI, Allen MADC-2110.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AllenAnalog View Post
          T
          For more modest installations and at home there are scaled down solutions costing less but still providing a heck of a lot more protection than a Belkin plug strip with some MOVs in it that cost $29.95 at Office Depot. My own home has a $350 surge protection unit mounted right on the main breaker panel. Then each of my areas of electronics concentration (home office, home theater and room with organs) has high quality (about $90 each) secondary surge protection connected right before the regular plug strips.. Each works in a different way and at a different speed. You need to protect line-to-neutral, line-to-ground and ground-to-neutral pathways. That's why quality surge protection costs more.
          Rather then spend $90 to protect a $500 Allen 122, you could get good protection with 16 each 22 mm MOV's and a soldering iron. For about $6 per amp or power supply . In each S100 amp Line to ground, line to neutral, neutral to ground, and each speaker wire pair. Omit the speaker wire protectors in the two power supplies, main & capture action. For organ with speakers in the console, omit the speaker wire protection. All those chassis need to opened up and have the e-caps replaced anyway. The local 1980 Allen 301 amp e-caps silenced it October 2015.
          The motor drives with three 22 mm MOV between the 3 phase power inputs survived quite well in the factory in this test center town for lightning strikes. Those 7mm units in consumer power strips have about 1/3 the energy absorbing capacity (joule rating) of the 15mm and 1/5 that of 22 mm units. Allen Bradley (siemens) ddin't use gas tubes in the 122 series motor drives, the premium brand drive IMHO 2000-2008.
          Be aware MOV protectors can fail short and the ones to the line should be protected by a fuse or circuit breaker. an AG3 type fuse provides a 1" air gap.
          Last edited by indianajo; 03-25-2016, 06:13 AM.
          city Hammond H-182 organ (2 ea),A100,10-82 TC, Wurlitzer 4500, Schober Recital Organ, Steinway 40" console , Sohmer 39" pianos, Ensoniq EPS, ; country Hammond H112

          Comment

          Working...
          X