Newbie here. I've been looking to get to playing organ again. Been about 20 yrs. I don't know much about what going on anymore. Anyway, I know of an Allen ADC-3000. Seems to be in good shape. One owner. The batteries have leaked on teh AV1 board and teh DM-3 Capture board. It appears like the back board and all others are ok.</P>
So now my questions:</P>
Is the organ worth aquiring? Can these boards be bought used or found for a reasonable amount of money? I havn't even heard this organ yet. What do you "experts" think about this instrument?</P>
Newbie here. I've been looking to get to playing organ again. Been about 20 yrs. I don't know much about what going on anymore. Anyway, I know of an Allen ADC-3000. Seems to be in good shape. One owner. The batteries have leaked on teh AV1 board and teh DM-3 Capture board. It appears like the back board and all others are ok.</P>
So now my questions:</P>
Is the organ worth aquiring? Can these boards be bought used or found for a reasonable amount of money? I havn't even heard this organ yet. What do you "experts" think about this instrument?</P>
Thanks for any help you can give me.</P>
CSRModell</P>
[/quote]</P>
It all depends. How much are they asking? Is the model number exactly ADC-3000, and not something like an ADC-3160? If so, it is an early ADC model with no MIDI. ADC was the last Allen series to use single cycle waves instead of multi-cycle samples,which means any articulation sounds like chiff are synthesized. Multi-cycle samples would include attack sounds as well as looped sustain portions that would contain some harmonic movement that occurs in a real sound. While Allen experimented with doing that during the ADC era, it was only on custom and high-end models.</P>
Personally, and also from watching the market for years, ADC isn't worth a lot. The problem is that many people selling used Allen organs from that period go to an Allen dealer and ask how much it's worth. Allen dealers inflate the value of used Allens for obvious reasons. They want to make it look like Allens hold their value more than they really do. Also, the price dealers quote also includes delivery, set-up, and voicing.</P>
Have you determined the cost of repairs for the items you mentioned? And if it isn't local, it's going to cost a lot to have it shipped with gas prices.</P>
As far as the sound, you may really like the Celeste Tuning feature.</P>
If I remember correctly, the ADC-3000 has at least one alterable voice. The voice cards are still available from Allen, but I have been told they want to phase them out.</P>
Currently, with what they believe to be a bad AV1 and DM3 boards, They are asking $600. This would include bench, pedals, and (2) speakers - unfinished. I believe I will have to refoam teh speakers. I think teh DN3 board can be saved, but I'm not sure about the AV1 board. Yes, according to the spec sheet that came with the organ it's an ADC-3000. It does have one alterable voice and has a bunch of cards in the drawer. Of course I don't even know if the card reader still works.</P>
This was a one owner organ that this music store is trying to sell for the guy - not an Allen dealer. It seems in pretty good shape for the age, it obviously hasn't been moved around much. I havn't played it yet. I hope to be able to do that tonight.</P>
No shipping problems. It's within an hour of my house and I own a very large truck (I own a sound/recording company) with which I can go retrieve the instrument.</P>
What I'm really hoping is that I can perferm most of the repairs myself. I understand Allen is very close to the vest when it comes to letting information out about their organs, but I'm relatively capable in the electronics world. Not Einstein mind you, but capable.</P>
For $600 it ought to be a steal. It will cost you $50 each or so to have the woofers re-foamed. That's about what I pay as a technician, but I think the local re-coning dude gives everyone the same price. And I buy brand new foam-surround woofers from various on-line sources for well under $100, if you'd rather just replace them. Or, you may feel like replacing the entire speaker units with good commercial-sound speakers. I don't think there is a 32' pedal stop on that model, so you don't have to have foam-surround woofers or a separate sub-woofer.</P>
The DM board is the capture action memory. The organ will, of course, function without it, but it would be nice if you can salvage it. The leakage may have ruined some traces, but if you're a good repairman you can probably save it. If not, Allen now offers a replacement board that works without batteries. It costs several hundred dollars, but is worth getting if the old one can't be fixed.</P>
The AV-1 board is the Alterable Voice (Card Reader) memory board. The organ will play without it, but the Card Readerwon't work. The Card Reader can have other problems, such as accumulated dust and trash in the light holes and burned-out lamps. However, fixing up the Card Reader should be easy for someone who is accustomed to doing routine electronic repairs. Just take it apart very carefully and notice where all the screw and washers go. Clean it up and put it back together exactly as it came apart. The lamps are common 12 volt micro-lamps that I have bought at Radio Shack in a pinch, though Allen sells "pre-tested" lamps.</P>
If you can't salvage the AV-1 board, you'd have to get one from Allen, and that too will be a little pricey, possibly a few hundred dollars. Prices for these boards sound high, but you must remember that these are not "mass production" pc boards, but highly custom pieces. They may notsell more than twenty or thirty of them a year, so it costs a lot to have them produced in such low quantities.</P>
Cleanup of pc boards can be done with that "scrubbing bubbles" bathroom cleaner in a spray can. Spray it on, use an old very soft toothbrush to spread it all over the board and under the chips, then wash off with warm water. Pat dry, use compressed air to get water from underneath chips, and let it air dry for a few hours before putting it back in the organ.</P>
When replacing batteries on either board, don't mount them on the board. Get plastic battery holders at Radio Shack and mount the batteries in the organ floor, running a pair of wires to the board. Bend up a corner of the card cage to run the cord out from the AV board to the batteries.</P>
My opinion -- even though ADC technology isnot as good as later digitals, it is still pretty good and most anyone would say it's better than anybody's analog. The price is so right, I'd have a hard time turning this one down myself.</P>
You may want to run the audio into a good reverb unit ahead of the amps, and that will be very simple here because these Allen's don't have the quirky oddball impedance and expression issues of the older Allen models. So a reverb unti that handles normal line level signals will work perfectly and won't interfere with expression.</P>
Good luck.</P>
JB</P>
John
---------- *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!
Oops, I missed that. If everything else seems to work, then it's a GREAT PRICE!!! You definitely should play it a couple of times. You will be able to be sure you like the sound. And if it stays on for an hour without problems, it might be in real good shape with the exception of the problems you noted. </P>
Thanks for the info. This gets more interesting as I get into it. JB - I've never heard of the "scrubbing bubbles" routine. That sounds great. Would you think it's better than usingvinegar-watersystem I've read about? It always scares me to submerge any electronics device in a liquid, but I guess there's no reason to worry if there's no power in it...</P>
Anyway, the guy who has the organ has now stated he'll take $250 and an acoustic guitar and amp that I have in my studio. To do this really does seem like a steal. I'll know for sure after I hear the organ tonight. Halloween made that impossible last night although it might have been fun to play some eerie music ;-)</P>
This forum is great by the way, and I appreciate all the info you guys have given me.</P>
Ok - I took the plunge and now have this huge organ at home... Here's the details and the problems. I hope someone can help me. History: It is a one owner instrument that was given to a music store on consignment. Then the organ had been stored for 11 yrs. Is a bit dusty. I tried to blow out most of the dust and clean it up before playing it. BTW, I payed $300 for it. The case is immaculate.</P>
1. I removed both the AV1 board and DM3 board immediately. They both have battery damage, but actually quite minimal. I cut off teh batteries. I'm gonna clean them up and give them a try. It doesn't appear that the damage has gone any further.</P>
Without the AV1 and DM3 board installed:</P>
2. When I power up the organ, it works. for about 1 minute. But then keys that I play don't stop playing when I do. Sort of like a piano with the sustain pedal held down. I have to turn off the organ, turn it back on. Then the same thing all over again. Works for a minute or 2 then keys don't stop playing.</P>
3. It seems like there is a hard tremolo on the great manual. Very pulsing, but no tremulant stop used.</P>
4. One pedal doesn't play. The very last one (highest) on the board (C).</P>
I don't know about the ciphers (hanging notes), but as far as the reverb hum, I would suspect a bad ground in the reverb circuit. Possibly a loose solder joint somewhere on the board that controls reverb, or just a connection inside the organ. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about these organs on the technical side, so I couldn't tell you where to look.</P>
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