Best Digital Organ for My Application

[Don Furr]

Looking for advice from those who might have similar circumstances as myself.
Since 1995 I've had two pipe organs in my home. The first was a Moller Artiste, the second was a 3 manual drawknob 28 rank organ. Both organs were sold because of selling the homes and moving to new locations.
I'm in southern California now and searching for another organ. No more pipes.....takes up too much room.
I've got both the Rodgers dealer and Allen dealer located a short drive from my home. I have no real experience with digital organs except a random encounter of playing a few. I need some help fellow Forum Members. How much can I expect to send for a 2 manual, AGO console practice instrument? Which brand is more poplar? Are certified used organs a viable option? (Every organ I've played was "used") Lol.
I don't want an analog organ....I want a newer digital unit.
Does anyone have any leads for such an organ in the lower half of California? Must be a classic, not theatre organ.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[toodles]

Since "best" is not a quantifiable characteristic, it depends upon what you like.

Allen, Rodgers, Johannus, and Viscount are the manufacturers of new instruments. Rodgers was recently purchased by the family that owns Johannus, so their product line might be changing within the next few years.

All have their advocates, and all can sound very good when properly voiced to their environment.

I recently visited my Allen dealer to hear what they are offering now, and it was excellent tonal quality to my ears.

A new demo 2-manual organ was $30,000, and a new demo 3-manual organ was $50,000 with drawknobs. They do have cost reduced models, but the 2-manual had about the minimum I would want in an organ, and this was out of my price range.

Used organs represent your best value. In Allen, I recommend the ADC models with a "3" as their 2nd digit as the oldest with sound quality that's pretty good. These are the 4300, 5300, and 5300. Newer models are MDS, Renaissance, Protege, and Bravura, but they will cost more. Expect these ADC organs to run in the range of $4,000 to $8,000. There's a lower range of Allen models that are labelled "ADC" but they are really MADC--it's a cost reduced set of electronics. Many are happy with these. Models like ADC-2100, ADC-3100, ADC-2160, and ADC-3160. The "60" models were the latest, and they have a nice stoplist. The sound isn't quite as pipelike as the bigger models. They were available with blind but programmable presets, one or two expression shoes, crescendo pedal, alterable voices, full programmable combination action when new, and so there are at least half a dozen (maybe a dozen) different models. The ADC-3100 and ADC-3160 are the fully featured models with drawknobs. My local dealer sells these regularly for $5,000. I'm in Utah, and it was a popular LDS model (I suspect) as he always seems to have some available. He does sell out-of state, if you are interested. http://www.heritagechurchorgan.com/used-organs.html

I'm not knowledgeable enough about Rodgers, Johannus and Viscount to suggest specific models, but listen and decide for yourself.

Some organs offer lighted stop controls (lighted rocker tabs or lighted drawknobs). I do not light lighted drawknobs simply because I think they are more difficult to operate than regular "moving" drawknobs. The force to turn on and off is greater than with moving drawknobs. On lighted rocker tabs, I have no objection--they work fine, and are quiet, and I think Allen's units look the nicest, but this is purely a personal aesthetic.

You can find a decent 2-manual used practice organ for as little as $2,000, I'd say, but expect that to be more like $5,000 if you buy from a dealer. For a new model, minimum is maybe $14,000? That would be a very small model and maybe not everything you want.

Buying from a dealer gets you delivery, setup, and probably some warranty. That is worth something, but how much, depends upon you.

Allen has introduced a "certified pre-owned" program, but that's just a marketing ploy, in my opinion, and they haven't made much ado about it. If the organ is working and is a name brand, there's little to go wrong with it. Good quality stop controls and keyboards will last a long time; poor quality won't last, and you can tell quality by how well it works when you play it. They "feel" right.

[myorgan]

DonF,

Welcome to the Forum! I hope you continue to contribute here as you continue your organ endeavors. I know several times I've found nice organs--in California, and there's no way I'm going to drive to the other corner of the US to pick up an organ. I've often lamented there aren't more quality organs available in my area (also cheap).

From my signature, you can tell which organ I prefer. I know there is an ADC-4300 that has been posted endlessly in Phoenix, and I can personally recommend that organ highly. That particular generation of ADC organs (x300 series) had nice, adjustable, articulation sounds for many of the 16', 8', and 4' stops.

People who sell used organs in SoCal (or California in general) are:

• http://www.organstop.com (near San Diego)
• http://www.jnelson.com/category/used...nts-available/ (near San Francisco)
• http://heritagechurchorgan.com/used-organs.html (Various Locations)
• http://www.losangelesorgan.com/pre-owned-organs.html/ (in Pasadena)

I've never had any personal contact with these dealers, but I'm sure you can find something there.

It looks like Toodles has responded to your post, and he will have excellent information to share. I wish you the best in your endeavor.

Michael

P.S. I've merged your threads into a single thread. You posted both within a minute of each other.

[tucsondave]

To add to what has already been mentioned I would encourage you to get one with MIDI capability. That would enable you to expand the stop list using virtual organ software or voice modules.

td

[Don Furr]

Thanks very much for the responses that have been posted thus far. Very good info and your help is much appreciated.
I'll be contacting the companies that have been listed to discover what they might have.
The search begins in earnest.

[andyg]

I've moved this to the correct section of the Forum for you. 'Home Organs' is for entertainment type organs only. You should get more replies in this section.

[toodles]

I'll mention that I have had personal dealings with Organ Stop, J. Nelson, and Heritage Church Organs. They are all very reputable. You are more likely to find a larger used model from Organ Stop or J. Nelson, as Heritage's business is very strongly into LDS ward models, which tend to be smaller organs. There is nothing wrong with the LDS models, though.

[Horseshoe_or]

It is likely that you will get more organ for the buck from Johannus, Content, or Viscount. However, the console will not be of the same quality as a Rodgers or Allen. You can search the Forum for past postings about ADC models and midi as it has been discussed pretty thoroughly.

[toodles]

You might check with Golden Gate Piano and Organ: http://www.goldengatepianoandorgan.com/index.php

They are showing several used Viscount organs on their site. I've dealt with this firm in the past, and can recommend them.

[jbird604]

It was mentioned above that the ADC 3100 and 3160 might have been used in LDS churches. That is indeed the case -- I installed a few of those for the LDS back in the 80's when I was selling them. These make really nice home organs, though as has been said, the sound is not quite up there with the larger "X300" ADC models. But without making a side-by-side comparison, you wouldn't find much to complain about with the sound and playability of these two nice full-featured drawknob models in reasonably compact consoles.

The LDS used the MDS-35 for stake center buildings during the 90's, and these are also excellent small practice organs, if you can find one for sale. This model represents more or less the same spec as the 3100/3160 using newer MDS technology, and adding a 32' ContreViolone to the pedals. All of these models require four full-size Allen HC speaker cabinets, but certainly take up less room in a home than even a modest pipe organ. All feature the deluxe moving-knob capture action, equivalent to the action on the most expensive Allens.

[Don Furr]

Again, thanks very much for the help you guys are providing in my organ search.
I'm a "pure" pipe organ guy with zero experience with home digital organs with the exception of some digital stops (Walker) I've heard on rare occasions. I've owned three unit organs including a nice Moller Artiste and have decided I don't want an entire room consumed with another pipe organ.
I've sent emails to several of the companies suggested with my contact info but so far heard back only from J. Nelson who doesn't have anything fitting my requirements.
My budget would be in a range from $5,000 to $15,000. There are several Allen's on Ebay now but of course "local pick-up only"
I'm just not familiar with all of the model numbers to know which is analog and which is digital and I'm not sure how many years the digital organ go back in time.
I'm learning but I'm sure I'll have more questions before this is over!!

[myorgan]

I'm just not familiar with all of the model numbers to know which is analog and which is digital and I'm not sure how many years the digital organ go back in time.

This is a time when Jan's Mother List would come in handy!

For Allen, the rough digital model timeline is, roughly:

• MOS-1: 1971-1981
• MOS-2: 1981-1983
• Early ADC (x000 series): 1983-1984/85
• Mid ADC (4900 & 5400): 1984-1986
• Late ADC (x300 series): 1986-1990
• MDS: 1990-1996 (There are early and later model features in this line as well).
• Renaissance: 1997-200?
• After that, I'm fuzzy on the details.

I work with mostly older organs.

Hope that helps a little. MIDI was an add-on in the ADC era, but became standard in the mid-MDS era (for a premium). There are retrofit options for organs going back to analogue models, but also MOS-1, MOS-2, and the ADC organs.

Michael

[Don Furr]

Yes Michael that lists helps a lot. I already have the list of the "Princess Pedals" organs which I DON'T want.
I believe I'm going to confine my search to Ca, Nv, and Az so if I find an organ in private hands I can simply rent a truck and go pick it up.
Surely I'll find something out here on the left coast.

[rjsilva]

Again, thanks very much for the help you guys are providing in my organ search.
I'm a "pure" pipe organ guy with zero experience with home digital organs with the exception of some digital stops (Walker) I've heard on rare occasions. I've owned three unit organs including a nice Moller Artiste and have decided I don't want an entire room consumed with another pipe organ.
...
My budget would be in a range from $5,000 to $15,000. There are several Allen's on Ebay now but of course "local pick-up only"

This may go without saying, but since you've had nearly exclusive time with pipe organs you're probably going to have to adjust your expectations for sound quality, given your budget. Just so you're as happy as you can be with your digital choice :) I'm no expert and I rarely get to play a pipe organ, but even the most basic I've played has a wonderful sense of space and detail that is missing in most digital organs. The best digital I've personally played is the Colby/Walker organ at Tenth Presbyterian and it is really nice, but a bit out of your budget!

[Don Furr]

This may go without saying, but since you've had nearly exclusive time with pipe organs you're probably going to have to adjust your expectations for sound quality, given your budget. Just so you're as happy as you can be with your digital choice :) I'm no expert and I rarely get to play a pipe organ, but even the most basic I've played has a wonderful sense of space and detail that is missing in most digital organs. The best digital I've personally played is the Colby/Walker organ at Tenth Presbyterian and it is really nice, but a bit out of your budget!

Yep, "slightly" out of my budget for a Walker!! We were maintaining a big Schlicker at Peachtree Presbyterian, Atlanta (where I'm from) and the church had added a HUGE Allen console and digital addition. Here's a UTube clip of the massive Allen console and the then, current organist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXRRl0-UuKI