To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300

[Guest]

Our church can purchase a Whurlitzer C-300 for $ 4,000. It's in great condition. It was made by Viscount. specs are: Great: Bourdon16'; Principal8'; Gedeckt 8'; Octave 4'; Super Octave 2';Mixture III; Trumpet 8'; Chimes; Swell to Great</P>


Swell: Bourdon 8'; Viole 8'; Viole Celeste 8'; Octave 4'; Nazard 2-2/3'; Flautino 2'; Cymbal III; Oboe 8'; Tremolo</P>


Pedal: Sub Bass 16'; Octave 8'; Bourdon 8'; Super Octave 4'; Fagott 16; Great to Pedal; Swell to Pedal</P>


Console: Transposer, Reverberation; Adjustable Tremelo; Headphone Jack; Individual Expression Pedals; Midi In/Out; </P>


Digital Sampling tone-generation technology; internal amp: 2 channels, 70 watts Rms Each</P>


Supports external amplification, including Viscount V30 acoustic box</P>


Questions: Is this a good value? Has the technology now being used in the Viscount organs changed significantly? Other thoughts?</P>


</P>

[NYCFarmboy]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300

make sure to play it in person first.

things to look for:

1. keyboards that feel good to the touch (and are not just synthesizer keyboards).

2. pedalboard that feels solid and is not clacky.

for that price though I think its probably just fine, but make sure to play it in person beforehand so you know what its like before getting it delivered.

[arie v]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300

John,

I am familiar with this model. I installed some and serviced some.

This model dates from 1988 to about1991. First generation digital from Viscount, and marketed and sold by Baldwin in the US. Sound was classical European in tone.

I would not recomend this model for the following reasons,

1) power supply problems - 5 Vdc line ran too hot, the darlington transistor that served as the regulator generally fried because of thermal cycling.

2) some of this model had problems with cold solder connections

3) pedalboards had issues with contacts, cracked heel plates, fast wearing felts, foam rubber up and down stops going rock hard over time. Basically the pedalboards become intermittant, noisy and clattery if played much at all. I have totally re-built a number of them, and they seem to hold up much better.

4) the poteniometers in the expression shoes, reverb controls etc. are extremely cheap

5) from a musical point of view they are limited, un-voiceable. Combination action is extremely small.

6) technical support for these organs is rather limited. As the most recent organs of this design are now over 15 years old, Baldwin is gone, Church Organ Systems is gone, test facilities and some critical parts for this vintage is non-existant.

7) MIDI on this organ is so primitive as to be useless.

The cabinet design is quite attractive, and it is about the only positive attribute to this instrument.

As to price, I wouldn't pay more than approx. $2,000 to $2,500 for an excellent condition and fully functioning organ.

The most recent Viscount organs, the Prestige organs are of much improved quality, and totally different technology.

AV

[Guest]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300



AV,</P>


Thank you very much for your detailed and thoughtful response.</P>


The only question I have is whether we are speaking of the same instrument. The Viscount factory rep in the U.S. says that the C-300 was built between 1992 and 1997. Is it possible that you are describing an older model?</P>


Have a blessed Thanksgiving!</P>

[arie v]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300

John,

The model I remember as C-300 is a 2 manual case, with little wooden drawstops (that operated much like harmoniums from 80 to 100 years ago) The capture action, merely over-rode the position of the stop knobs. In other words it was a blind capture system. The tab organ version was the C-250. This organ is definietly a product of the late 80s and phased out about 1991. In fact it was unobtainable by late 1992.

The person who can tell you more is Norm Ninnemann. He is the technical support for Viscount organs in the US. His ph # is 715-231-4096. His e-mail is [email protected].

AV

[Tromba]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300



I think that Arie is correct. These organs replaced the "Howard" series organs that Baldwin sold in the late 1980s that were built by Galanti. The WurliTzer organs were the lower end instruments that Baldwin sold, as opposed to the "D" series that were American made. When Baldwin spun off the church organ division, and it was known as "Church Organ Systems," the organs were all made by Viscount and were the same as the WurliTzer organs that Baldwin sold. Everything about them was cheap. The keyboards are terrible and have been known to have all sorts of problems. The stops are non-voicable and all have a very hard, cold sound. The reeds sound like bees buzzing in a tin can. Look around and see if you can't find a used Rodgers or Allen from the past few years. You'll be able to get customer support, the organs will be voicable, on Rodgers, the MIDI will be infinitely more advanced, and the tone will be better.</P>


Just because the price is good doesn't mean that you're getting a deal...</P>

[Guest]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300



For $4000 you might have a decent chance to win this no-reserve auction for an Allen MDC-10x.</P>


http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Organ-modl...QQcmdZViewItem</P>


The auction ends in 7 hours. This would be a far far better value for your church than a C-300.</P>

[Guest]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300



For $4000 you could have a shot at winning this current ebayauction for an Allen MDC-10X.</P>


http://cgi.ebay.com/Allen-Organ-modl...QQcmdZViewItem</P>


This organ would be far superior value for your church than a c-300. The auction has 7 hours to go.</P>


(Sorry about the duplicate posting)</P>


</P>


</P>


UPDATE: The MDC-10x sold for $2136. Someone got a heck of a deal!</P>

[Guest]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300



arie v:</P>


Now I am confused. The pull stops on this organ are wood, without the white end covers, but they are not "little wooden ones" found in the old harmoniums. Actually, the Wurlitzer looks much like the current Allen Renaissance Q 205 with 29 stops, 2 manuals. I have placed a call to Norm Ninnemann and left a message.</P>


Your additional thoughts? </P>


John</P>

[arie v]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300

John,

I pulled out the broadsheet on the Wurli C-300. I compared it to the Allen Q 205. They indded do look similar.

Regarding the drawstops, the Wurli ones are all wood, they are quite small, and feel in use much like the old harmoniums. The action of the drawstops is very much spring loaded and have a real snap to them. Nothing like modern dual magnetic drawstops.

Like I said, the cabinet is very solid and attractive, and is about the only saving grace of the instrument.

My previous post as far as facts go, is all correct.

Arie V

[Guest]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300



Arie V,</P>


Thank you again for all your assistance. I am a recent member of the forum, but I can say that it is great to be able to draw on the expertise of others. Your responses have been very helpful.</P>


JohnM</P>

[Manum de Tabula]

Re: To buy or not to buy Wurlitzer C-300

For that much money you can find a better instrument with less potential for future problems. Have you looked at

http://www.keyboardtrader.com/msgboard.cfm?qChoice=All

There are usually two or three very nice organs available, sometimes free of charge. The best advice I could give would be to purchase as recent an instrument as you can afford and a brand that is still in business and supplies parts.